SWALE on some testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) drama...very good info with the drama

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I respond to as litte as 150iu/eod for about 2 weeks and step up to 250 EOD. After looking at my blood work and seeing my LH being 1.9 mIU/ml I could see why.
FSH 1.7.
I never really lost much tesicular mass at all. As I said in another thread I didn't even noticed any loss until they actually increased in size. It doesn't make sense for me to have had the ilibido I had( that lab was a month ago).

This is not a purposeful plug for p-gh but why would the contents of diferent forms of gaba cause such an increase in libido? Unles it truely does increase GH.
Also what about us guys who get shut down like everyone else but don't lose our collective balls? At the reading I just gave above my ball mass was and is as plump as ever.
total testosterone:105
free testosterone 5.8.(again all in the same lab a month ago)
progesterone: 0.4
estroidal: 12
cortisol:12.7
No notable loss of muscle but some increased fat.
How would hcg be of help in my situation? Seems like the only thing missing is pituitary gland to do its job. HCG,nolva seem inapropriate in my case other than temporary testo rise but cause fruther inhibition. As mentioined with the P-GH; GH greatly increases my libido too and further plumps up my soldiers. I am really starting to think I have legitimate low GH levels. Drive is up so I'm sure the readings will be with up to date lab.
Got an opinion on that?
 
"Schumaker" (or whatever else you go by here or elsewhere) you really do not understand how science marches on. The "guru's" in medicine are those who have boiled down available knowledge, pulling the best from it, and perhaps synthesizing their own treatment protocols following that (which also requires intuition). But merely providing the best from amongst all current care is sufficient.

There is no "guru" in ANY field who synthesized all knowledge pertaining to same. Those who are giants are so only by standing upon the shoulders of their predecessors.
 
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EZ--Yours is a perfect example of how different guys are with respect to their hormonal systems. This is why no one should ever be put on a "program".

I wish I had a good answer to your question. The plain truth is that we just don't know.

However, testicular mass is a subjective report based upon aesthetics. There may be tissue changes in them (you did not mention consistency, for instance). Also, your low T level is not healthy for you. What I mean to say is, just because you feel okay does not mean you are okay. There is no way to correlate either the number of symptoms, or the severity of particular symptoms, to the severity of the hypogonadal condition. As testosterone is as ubiquitos as any hormone in the body, with receptors for it on every cell (there must be a reason for that) low levels--even low-normal levels--are not what Nature intended.

As far as testicular mass goes, my advice would be for you to consider yourself lucky. Obviously you are a "hyper-responder" to Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). You have found what works for you in this respect.

BTW, GH does not cause any startling improvements in libido. Its effects are more subtle than that. I have no experience with the product you mention, so cannot comment as to its efficacy. Sorry.
 
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consitency is dense/solid at time in normal slight oval...
Thanks for giving an opinion. And I know GH is not supposed to do that but it does every time. I'm almost 39 now. When I first used GH I hardly noticed anything at age 32.
I know the gh is legit.
have you ever heard of anyone that has gotten testicle mass increased from small doses of testosterone? In my 20's this happend to me . I was legit upjohn testo cyp straight from the pharmacy.
I have told my doc at the time and he didn't have an answer other than my testo cyp might be fake. But it wasn't.

I have all kinds of backwrads ass things with my system I just don't get!!!
 
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EZ--Dense and solid is a good thing.

I do have a few patients whose systems always seem to act in a paradoxical fashion. Every time we think we have something down, Mother Nature shows us who is (still) boss!

This is why I always say (1) You have to keep an open mind and continue trying different things until you find what works best, for each and every patient individually, and (2) NOTHING surprises me anymore.

Do you mean that your testes grew WHILE you were taking the testosterone? No, I have not heard of that happening until now. Were you FULLY developed sexually when you started the T?

If you have posed your question within the context of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), then 100mg is not a"small dose". In fact, it is the most popular dose in legitimate testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) medicine. Most of the docs I have heard lecture, read, or personally talked to, start their guys out at 75-100mg per week. I want to be as generous as I can, so I start MOST of my guys at 100mg per week, then adjust from there after follow-uplabs in about 5 weeks. There are fellows who come in near midrange, so I might just touch them with, for instance, 40mg of test cyp or 2.5gms of Androgel. The Androgel is good when I just want to add a bit of the "manliness" the disproportionate DHT response transdermals bring.
 
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YEs I was 24 y/o and fully developed. Very strong libido. And had no problems gaining muscle I oftened workout twice(45 minute workouts a day) 4 days on 3 off. I know I got over trained many times because I would only be able to do this 2 weeks in a row. But I read it in some muscle rag at the time some pro was doing a outine like this(this was prejuice).
On the testo cyp I only did the 100mg/wk/4 weeks on than 4 off then went 2 weeks same dose and quit because of extreme anxiety and very low BG.
When I say I told my doc he examined me and said maybe a possible infection but that came back neg. They were solid and hard and about 50 percent bigger for (out of memory) 6 weeks and then went back to normal. My first wife at the time was the first to comment as I really didn't notice till I think after 4 weeks and they kinda hurt.

Now prior to that (like 6 months before I started the testo)I was a heavy drinker(I don't know the relevance but my doc at the time asked me about it). I would like to also ad my doc then did roids and was a pretty heavily muscled guy. That is why I was brutaly honest with him(more than fear cause I was thinking CANCER!)
He didn't do any testo labs at the time case I didnt have the funds.
Once again my testo cyp was real! I went into the pharmacy with the guy to get it and gave him $50 for 10 ml.
My doc mentioned he heard of this in teens as I think you were thinking about that.
Is there any such thing as no negative feedback loop? Now I don't know what would've happened if I had stayed on.
I have asked about this throughout the years.
 
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Yours is a complicated, and very interesting, case to be sure. The 4on/4off cycle may have something to do with it.

If your system functioned normally prior to the testosterone supplementaion, that would tend to mitigate against any kind of receptor anomaly.

Alcohol increases aromatase activity. Alcoholism also increases estrogen by preventing the liver from properly metabolizing estrogens, and shunting androstenedione directly to estrogen, instead of being converted to testosterone (as androstenedione is a better substrate for aromatase then testosterone is).
 
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Thank you. I think as time goes on more and more people will see that I have indeed been completely forthright in what I have said about it.

But let's get ready for The Big Debate. This is, after all, Neutral Ground. I hope they send their best fighter!
 
SWALE said:
Interesting. A guy who calls himself "Schumaker" shows up here, for his VERY FIRST POST EVER, to attack me. Did you think we wouldn't immediately catch onto your game?


There is no "game" here - I'm just tired of your silliness. I posted as Thanos on the old T-mag boards. When I came here I remembered you the T-mag days.

You come across so condenscending that most people ignore everything you write. Do you really think that anyone besides a wide-eyed newbie reads any of the 12 page long manifestos that you post?

I've noticed that you have a habit of getting personal whenever anyone challenges you. You always play the "He's not ethical" card. When you are challenged back, you retreat behind "hey, this is supposed to be about the medicine." How convienent.

You started a post not long ago attacking Cy Wilson. You didn't "keep it about the medicine" in that thread, you routinely attacked him personally. Maybe you don't realize it, but you do it to everyone who dares disagree with you. Somehow, you believe that you are the only person on this planet who knows anything about health. It gets old.

Maybe you should read your follow up posts to mine. You just can't stop yourself from making snide remarks and baseless accusations all the way through them. You purposely mis-spell screennames and enclose them in quotes in an attempt to needle. Is that something that a mature, world-class doctor does? No, its something a 12 year old girl does.
 
This thread is coming extremely close to being "LOCKED".............

Let's keep it civil !!...............and the personal shit out of it !!
 
No, typing is just difficult for me becasue I lost the index finger on my left hand. That causes me to hit A LOT of wrong keys. I always try to clean stuff up, but cannot get to everything I mistype. Also, I have noticed that I spelled much better before I got out of medical school. LOL. The handwriting is as lousy as ever, though.

I guess I'd have to admit some of it is just a lack of attention to detail. I just cannot spell everyone's names--especially when they are non deplume's which may be very uniquely spelled--all the time. No offense is intended.
 
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SWALE said:
"Schumaker" (or whatever else you go by here or elsewhere) you really do not understand how science marches on.


This is a prime of example of your condensending nature. You purposely misspell my screenname and then try to insinuate that I must have ulterior motives for disagreeing with you. Then you use your handy "you really do not understand" line.

I and everyone else on this board understand how science marches on. You're aware of that but use that to try to belittle anyone that dare challenge you.
 
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Swale, I agree with most of your priciples. If you're going to call people out, however, I'm going to bring up a point that hopefully you'll pay some attention to. Apparently you will not do phone consultations with your patients, as the $250 you charge is not enough to cover that. Maybe it's not important, maybe it is. Just someting I personally take issue with.
 
SWALE, I think its important for you to know that I don't have anything personally against you. I am happy that there are doctors who post on the boards to give a professional point of view. I don't think that being a doctor makes one 100% right, but it is really helpful to hear a doctor's opinion.

What I am trying to say is that your posts are becoming more and more littered with personal attacks on people who do not agree with you. The thread you started about Cy Wilson is a prime example of that. I appreciated you sharing your take on his article, but I had to read it with more suspicion than I would liked because of all of the personal attacks on the author. When someone inserts personal attacks it gives the impression that there is an agenda.

I enjoy the actual content of your posts - the condensending nature just gets in the way. If you take out the snide remarks, your posts are very informative and good seeds for discussion.
 
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Sorry you are not comfortable with that part of my practice. I don't feel like you are calling me out, though, as yours is obviously a straight-forward and honest statement. If I worked over the phone, I'd be on the phone all day long, every day. I know other docs do that, but I just never felt comfortable trying to bill for it. Also, I'd have to then pay to have the conversation transcribed into electronic record, which is what my practice is based upon. That would mean a substantial increase in my prices, and many of my guys either do not have insurance, or do not want anyone else knowing about their treatment. Too, as it stands, I am the ONLY one who sees my patients' Medical Records (without permission to share, of course), and I want to preserve this feature.

The guys who see me in my clinic will tell you that I think nothing of spending an hour and a half with them. I like to really get inside my patients' heads, as I believe this adds tremendously to my ability to provide excellent medical care. I also enjoy this very much, and appreciate it as a true luxury most other doctors wish they enjoyed.
 
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Swale,

Is it true you just graduated from med school in 2001 from MI State University and you still have to do your internship & do your residency? With all due respect, why do you call your self "Old Doc?"
 
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You have most of it right, but not all. Yes, I graduated from MSU in 2001, but then did the required Traditional Rotating Internship in order to qualify for my Medical License as a General Practitioner. But that was as "traditional" as I could stand, as I then completely abandoned conventional medical training (it is SO repressive, and requires jack-booted marching--definitely not for me) and went off on my own. I have never regretted not spending another two years suffering horribly during a traditional residency, just to become a completely nontraditional doctor. Some chose to mock me as I went off, but they could hear my big brass you-know-whats dragging as I did. Now they are still all suffering terribly, just to live a life of being on call, fighting with insurance companies, and being stressed out. Thank my gracious God, I do none of that.

I call myself 'Ol Doc because I am PHYSICALLY old (ya, how did I get so old, so soon?). I really did not go to college in any serious way until I was almost 37 years old. Then I started out by getting a BS (the degreed kind) in Genetics. On the other hand, I have found that the rich and varied life I have enjoyed prior to medical school has equipped me well to understand patients from nearly every walk of life. But ESPECIALLY the Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) athletes, for I can talk the talk because I spent nearly ten years walking the walk. My personal experiences manipulating hormones allowed me to FEEL what I wanted to accomplish through testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), and also to know, in my heart, how being hypogonadal really sucks. When a hypogonadal patient, or Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) athlete who is crashing, comes to me, I know EXACTLY how he feels, and that empathy definitely improves my quality of care.

My older age makes other doctors assume I have many more years of training than I do. This is especially helpful when I am, for instance, trying to teach an Endocrinologist how to administer testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Once I begin to speak on it, all doubt is lost, but I need to be able to get in front of them. And I sure do not tell them how many patients I have taken away from Endo's, because they want their testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) done right and best. Here's a little secret: Endo's are virtually untrainable when it comes to proper testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Many seem like they just want to sit back on their training--and laurels--and not move forward. It is as if they just look for a bunch of letters after my name, and finding few, just write me off. UNTIL we begin a conversation on the subject. As the Rep for a drug company I represent told me at the end of our first meeting "Dr. John, you say things about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) that I have never heard of (and he deals with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) docs all day long)--but now that you explain why, it makes perfect sense to me". He is, BTW, a physician himself. You can probably see why I have lost a lot of respect for the "conventional" medical community. How many posts have we all read on the Boards where a Bro was criticizing some doc because he/she was, well, wrong (I am being kind).

Sure, I acomplished some things before starting medical school, such as building a transmission electron microscope when I was fifteen, patenting an invention, and founding a national health services program following the death of my finace' from leukemia. But I enjoyed conventional scientific training very little, and knew that when I could get off on my own, and head out to the woodshed with a bunch of books, I would come up with something that would make a diference. I sure hope I am now.

The minute I got loose of all that, I sought out the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, and availed myself of their excellent educational opportunities. I read through everything I could get my hands on, and rediscovered the true joy in learning. A week spent at a training seminar put on by them taught me tons, but I soon realized that I had surpassed most of my teachers (I have never been shy about cornering some expert and picking their brain). Why? Because of all that I had learned during years of reading, and thinking about, steroids. You guys have no idea how much you know about how to use these medications, compared to many testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) Providers. Few docs know how to use the ancillaries which are a very necessary part of optimized testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Any number of guys on the Boards would find themselves snickering at some of the statements made by physician speakers at these conferences.

I will tell you something else that REALLY shaped my thinking: hanging out on these very Message Boards. Look at all the studies--some pertinent, others largely misinterpreted--that are posted here. I always tell doctors who ask me how I got so far, so fast, that if they want to learn about testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), then learn how to treat steroid athletes. I thought maybe this would result in a few more of them competent to take care of us around the country. I also feel like I owe the BB'ing community in return for the educatiuon I got here when I started, and also was just very proud to come back to my Bro's with my Medical License in my hand.

Besides the actual personal experience manipulating hormones, I do not know why it is I have been able to get so far with it so fast, but I notice that, for some reason, I am just able to "see" the hormonal "matrix" in its entirety. Either way, I am proud of the two brand new testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocols I have already developed, and am beginning to speak on them nationally now. A third one is on the way.

Well, I guess that's my story. Don't ask me what time it is: I'll tell you how to build a watch. But thank you for asking.
 
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