SWALE on some testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) drama...very good info with the drama

[Lunkhead]

Swale:


as a fellow MD who has completed more than 14 years of post graduate "jack booted" training, I'd like to congratulate you for your dedication and integrity. BTW, I'm also a recreational/amateur PL who uses Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) (definitely NOT TRT! lol).

Your services are needed badly in the community-- that's not arguable. The fact that you obviously keep your patient's best interests and long term health as your first priority rather than giving them what they want (lots of steroids and GH) is admirable.

These days I find that many of my colleagues never cease to embarass me-- many of them have the whole alphabet soup after their names. Stick to the high road and always do what you think is best for the patient regardless of $, politics or anything else and you will always sleep well at night. This policy has served me well over the last few years.

I'd ignore your detractors-- they are obviously fools. Don't waste your time with them.

l

 

[ulter]

Where did you get the "99%" figure you published? The statistics look different to me, becasuse I am getting guys who are now suffering what seems to be ireversible hypogonadism, secondary to Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use. When they list Deca, the picture becomes more complicated. I have just seen it too many times.

The statistics from what look different to you? I have answered 16,000 emails a year for over 3 years and have over 20,000 posts on AS use, and I have read 10 for every one I have posted in 4 years. Which means I have read over 200,000 posts about AS use.
I have communicated with over 5000 AS users in the past 4 years and only 30-40 have had the problems with nandrolone you're describing. How many patients do you have with this dread deca problem? 10, 20, 100? Nah, I don't think so.

 

[dustoff1]

Ok, I am on week 6 of my first Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) usage... When do I need to get my lipid profiles done? I have a before to compare with... Do I need to do one now or wait until cycle is over over? Suggestions? I will tell you one side effect I did not expect.... Sleep Apnea... and terrible snoring..
Cannot sleep on my back.. If I do, I have sleep apnea constantly... Getting a mouthpiece to try and going to a sleep specialist in a couple of weeks... I the meantime, sleeping on a mattress on the floor in our bathroom! So far that is the ONLY noticeable side effect.. (other than gaining 18 lbs so far) But do not underestimate the detrimental effects of sleep apnea... it is BAD for you...

 

[ulter]

The sleep apnea will diminish. But probably not for a few more cycles. And it's a very common side effect especially while bulking.
If you're only on for 6 weeks you can skip the Lipid Panel because the results aren't going to tell you anything. Lipid Panels in general for healthy, exercising young males are highly over-rated and a short term flucuation at any given time throughout your life is common anways and nothing to be concerned with.

 

[dustoff1]

Well, I am healthy, excercising, but not really that young...

I am 43... Was on Atkins for a year and my profiles were so, so... After I went off Atkins, they got better... Now I am on Test and worried they might be getting bad again....

Just trying to stay healthy...

Hey, where's the BIG DEBATE? I thought SWALE and PFJOY's Doc were going to DUKE IT OUT?

WHEN IS THE FIRST ROUND?

 

[Jawbone]

I do not think the debate will happen esp since PBLE is now a sponsor here at Steroidology

 

[ulter]

Well, I am healthy, excercising, but not really that young...

I am 43... Was on Atkins for a year and my profiles were so, so... After I went off Atkins, they got better... Now I am on Test and worried they might be getting bad again....

Just trying to stay healthy...

A mere lad of 43? A 6 week cycle isn't going to make any difference in your chances of getting CAD so I wouldn't be concerned about it. You should check it a couple weeks after your post cycle recovery is completed just for the peace of mind, if you're worried.

 

[BiggieSwolls]

I do not think the debate will happen esp since PBLE is now a sponsor here at Steroidology

Yes, we put their banner up on the same page where SWALE has a banner up for free www.steroidology.com/health_services -- oh ya, we also put them on the friends page. So that HAS to mean that there will not be a debate. Gimme a break, what goes through some of your heads? Its always got to be a conspiracy or something.

 

[dustoff1]

Ok, ... once again... Who is willing to debate? SWALE, you still in?
PFJOY... Where is your DOC?

 

[BiggieSwolls]

This is turning into a high school callout. The two Doctors are obviously busy and it will be tough to get them online at the same time. There is also the matter of getting PFjoy's Doctor registered here first so we will work on that.

As far as any debate, I will try and co-ordinate something along the lines of a debate but cant promise anything as again, these two Doctors are very busy.

 

[Jawbone]

I was pro debate at first but I wish now that Biggie would lock this thread and let this die.

Both parties will find their niche and since this is a tight community, word of mouth as to how people are treated and cared for is ultimately whats important.

 

[jboldman]

likewise, i am pretty sure no good will come of a debate even if swale is willing to reside on the same board as PB due to stated ethical reasons. I'd really like to see everyone get along and let water find its own level that way everyone benefits as i believe both have something of value to offer.

jb

 

[dustoff1]

They dont have to debate in real time, just what has been done so far on this thread. Sharing and challenging ideas. This is what spreads knowledge.

 

[SWALE]

Sorry I have been away for a few days, Bro's. As Biggie said, we are very busy.

I pulled a few questions from the thread I will answer now.

Schumacher--IMPO, WHY add deca to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? What is it supposed to do for the patient? Give them gyno? How about impotence? And even if the testosterone administered counteracts that, it is not my medical philosophy to have the patient chase their tail by prescribing one medication to counteract the ill effects of another. IF a doctor is going to purposefully damage the health of his/her pateints by taking them above the top of normal range, I would vastly prefer they do it with just testosterone. As we say, "test is best". It is completely natural, and the body has brought this particular molecule along with it throughout history.

As far as the well-proven HDL-lowering properties of Winstrol, it has not been shown to be due to the same increased reverse CHOL transport that testosterone induces. And there is no reason to suspect that it is.

Lunkhead--Welcome! I look forward to the comraderie of a colleague here, and elsewhere.

Ulter--Sleep apnea is a VERY serious medical condition. And we are talking about long-term testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) use here, not short Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycles. Of note, sleep apnea is a known possible side effect of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) (although usually just in chronic pulmonary disease patients), but there are also studies that have shown it can ameliorate the symptoms of same.

You should learn a little bit about the Lipid Profile before you make statements which risk damaging the health of the Members here.

Think of it as a dynamic process. Plaque is constantly being deposited onto the lining of the cardiovascular system. And (hopefully) it is also constantly being stripped off. Like money (which is easier to spend than make) it is far easier to become unhealthy than healthy. The six week cycle you mention may indeed blow the Lipid Profile for many, many months afterwards. I have seen the labs. So this (seemingly innocuous) little six week cycle may actually lead to an overall depostion of plaque for most of a year. And THAT is serious business. Once the macrophages (which try to consume the excess CHOL in order to protect the body) have become so bloated with same that they become ineffective and turn into what are called "foam cells", that is it for them. They now become imbedded into the endothelial lining. What is their natural evolution them? Creation of the Acute Coronary Syndrome. So to say there is nothing to worry about if the Lipid profile is damaged by (even a short) cycle is sheer nonsense.

Of course, if one sticks to legitimate testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), this is of no concern, as doing so only improves CV health.

I no longer expect the Big Debate to occur.

 

[ulter]

"You should learn a little bit about the Lipid Profile before you make statements which risk damaging the health of the Members here."

Once again you're way behind the curve in your profession. I suggest you read The Cholesterol Myths by Dr. Uffe Ravnskov and keep up with the recent studies proving everything I posted.
Please point me to the study showing an 8-10 week increase in cho levels will cause CAD.


"Of course, if one sticks to legitimate testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), this is of no concern, as doing so only improves CV health."


More BS to bring in patients with scare tactics. "Use me and you won't get CAD from AS but if you don't then you'll develop it"



Sleep apnea induced by AS is not the life-threatening condition it is for people who develop it naturally. It's a common side effect so where are all the posts from people who get it talking about the damage it caused them.
More scare tactics I guess. You sound like one of those media talking heads.

 

[Yo Tengo Madera?]

BRO....activity and an A#1 lifestyle didn't prolong Jim Fixx's life( he was a top marathoner as you probably know) He died in his early 50's while running (heart attack) and the only risk factor he had was a poor lipid profile, with low hdl and somewhat high ldl.

he had a very significant risk factor you are not mentioning. Family history. Both his father and grandfather died in their 30's from heart disease. So many people ignoer this when bashing the benefits of running and cardiovascular work. Due to his family history alone it is likely he extended his life 2 decades by his "Fixx"ation in running.

 

[SWALE]

Ulter--Once again, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Too bad that does not inhibit your ungentlemanly behavior.

 

[ulter]

Talk to me after you read the book.
Dr. Uffe Ravnskov has published a dozen papers on this and written an entire book devoted to killing this cholesterol myth you’re helping propagate. Your next published paper will be your first one. So you can SAY I don't know what I am talking about, but you don't have the credentials to put up against Ravnskov or any of the authors debunking this myth. Like I said, you’re behind the curve again.

 

[Jawbone]

Ulter,

could you give us a synopsis of what the author is contradicting?
Just bullet points--nothing too detailed please.

 

[SWALE]

Ulter--Actually, my first paper, "My Current Best thoughts on How to Administer Testosterone Replacement Therapy for Men--A Recipe for Success" has been published by the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine in its 2004 Medical Therapeutics Manual.

Yes, let's hear your synopsis of the book you refer to. We're all waiting...