SWALE on some testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) drama...very good info with the drama
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StoneColdNTO
Administrator
ulter said:
From what limited time I spent there, it looks like he is s aying "total cholesterol" is not a major indicator of CVD......but what about a profile like this, with very low HDL and a brutal HDL/total cholesterol ratio. Cause I have a VERY hard time believing that there is nothing to worry about there, especially when your doc gives you some Nitro because he fears the worst.
LIPID PROFILE
Cholesterol...........6.04..............[<5.2]mmol/L
Triglyceride..........2.02...............[<2.3]mmol/L
HDL Cholesterol.......0.21..........[>.90]mmol/L
LDL ""...................4.91..........[<3.4]mmol/L
Total Chol/HDL Ratio..28.8......*
*males; avg=5,less than 3.5(low risk), greater than 9(high risk)
StoneColdNTO
Administrator
Jawbone said:
That was close to 2 years ago, I got the numbers back in line using Flush Free Niacin, it took a few months though.
If your doctor doesn't know that the numbers are a result of AS use I imagine he's going to have a startled reaction to those numbers. However there is no evidence that even the worst lipid profile would be an indicator of future CAD if it's short term, in your case 90 days post cycle. If it was then the 10's of thousand of athletes who cycled in the 70's would be dropping dead like flies right now, and they simply are not.
ulter--No, I want to hear what YOU think. Or is it another example of you "knowing some guy somewhere who wrote something about something, and that is why SWALE is wrong"? Comeon, you claim to be so very brilliant, let's hear YOUR analysis of it. We are STILL waiting...
BTW, if your claim that packing atherosclerotic plaque onto the lining of the CV for six months or more is of no consequnce, then just say so. At least then I would have a starting point to help you (although I already described just that, and you still don't get it).
BTW, if your claim that packing atherosclerotic plaque onto the lining of the CV for six months or more is of no consequnce, then just say so. At least then I would have a starting point to help you (although I already described just that, and you still don't get it).
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DADAWG
Community Veteran
why is that ? isnt slow release harsher on the liver ? im not saying your not right ive just always considered FF niacin better . its what i use and at 5-9 in my shoes and weighing anywhere from 260-300PLUS ive never had a total cholesterol reading higher than 150 and im 40 something years old and have taken plenty of supplementsSWALE said:
, i get annual bloodwork and this is the first time ive ever had a bad reading , my hdl was 1 point below the the minimum considered to be in the normal range and thats after several months of supplements lol , range is 29-86 mg/dl and mine was 28 .total was 137 , triglycerides 84 [ 35-160 ] ,ldl 91 [ 0-130 ] , vldl 17[ 10-40] . my liver values are also good but im to lazy to type them .I have already posted what I think. In fact I have already had this entire discussion last May and since you are on the thread I would think you would remember it.
Are you asking me for a book review so you don't have to look it up yourself?
You asked me to post where I got my information. I have now done so, YOU on the other hand have not. So until you post where you got this information about short term rises in cho levels causing CAD I don't need to post anything else. I am STILL waiting.
Are you asking me for a book review so you don't have to look it up yourself?
You asked me to post where I got my information. I have now done so, YOU on the other hand have not. So until you post where you got this information about short term rises in cho levels causing CAD I don't need to post anything else. I am STILL waiting.
Ulter--Can't come up with it, eh? So I thought. It should only take you a couple of sentences. Why can't you do that? Once again, you blow off about something you know absolutely nothing about. Why don't you just admit that from the start? Leave the medicine to those who know what we are doing.
A six month slam to the Lipid Profile is not something one should take lightly. And think about it, how many are REALLY allowing their LP's to fully recover, and give themselves time to strip off all the extra plaque they laid down, before starting their next cycle?
A six month slam to the Lipid Profile is not something one should take lightly. And think about it, how many are REALLY allowing their LP's to fully recover, and give themselves time to strip off all the extra plaque they laid down, before starting their next cycle?
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DADAWG--Those of us who have used the no-flush have seen that it just does not live up to its expectations. I prefer Niaspan (the SR version), and it really isn't a problem as far as hepatotoxicity as long as you know how to handle it. Something to keep in mind with this med is that there seems to be a "threshold" below which it just doesn't do anything. Once you cross that "threshold" it works great. You gradually increase to 1000mg per day, nothing, Then to 1500mg QD, still nothing. Then you increase to 2000mg QD, and all of a sudden, it all happens. Two more issues come up. One, this threshold may be different for everyone. The next is the risk of liver toxicity. That is why I run LFT's at either 1000mg QD, or 1500mg QD, depending on the patient. Its not usually going to be a problem until you get over 2500mg per day, and you have most likely gotten your increase in HDL's and decrease in LDL's long before then.
DADAWG--you have to understand that when we address the benefits of a medication or treatment protocol, we are speaking in terms of very broad generalities across the vast population.
An HDL at the bottom of normal range is not healthy. However, in your case, yours is artificially lowered simply because your total CHOL is so low. Yours is th exceptional case (in more ways than one) where I would prefer to see your CHOL actually rise a bit.
Obviously there is much more to cardiovascular health than just the Lipid Profile, but I am QUITE impressed by yours. Still, I would ask you to take a fish oil supplement, if you are not already.
An HDL at the bottom of normal range is not healthy. However, in your case, yours is artificially lowered simply because your total CHOL is so low. Yours is th exceptional case (in more ways than one) where I would prefer to see your CHOL actually rise a bit.
Obviously there is much more to cardiovascular health than just the Lipid Profile, but I am QUITE impressed by yours. Still, I would ask you to take a fish oil supplement, if you are not already.
"Ulter--Can't come up with it, eh? So I thought. It should only take you a couple of sentences. Why can't you do that?
SWALE trying to cover up the fact that you don't have anything to back up your statements by ignoring the proof I gave to back up mine isn't going to wash.
You're full of shite again. I can't come up with what?
The book is a review of the current literature showing why lipid panels are not an accurate predictor of future CAD. You want my opinion of that? You have it.
"A six month slam to the Lipid Profile is not something one should take lightly."
SHOW ME THE STUDY THAT SAYS THIS IS GOING TO RESULT IN ANY FUTURE HEART AILMENTS!
How many times do I have to ask you to back up what you're saying. Instead of doing that you're asking me for a book review. I gave you a website that will give you a book review. I am only asking for what I gave you.
Give me a book, a study, anything. And I promise I won't ask you for a book review like you did me. JUST PROVE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING!!!
You're a disgrace to your profession.
When people on the boards find out that using your services means that Law Enforcement has access to their personal AS usage history I don't think people are going to be so interested in dealing with you. When they knock on your door and ask for your records you will give them up and everyone here who has used you will be exposed. When that day comes, and it will soon, it will be interesting to see how well you do trying to avoid THEIR questions like you do mine.
SWALE trying to cover up the fact that you don't have anything to back up your statements by ignoring the proof I gave to back up mine isn't going to wash.
You're full of shite again. I can't come up with what?
The book is a review of the current literature showing why lipid panels are not an accurate predictor of future CAD. You want my opinion of that? You have it.
"A six month slam to the Lipid Profile is not something one should take lightly."
SHOW ME THE STUDY THAT SAYS THIS IS GOING TO RESULT IN ANY FUTURE HEART AILMENTS!
How many times do I have to ask you to back up what you're saying. Instead of doing that you're asking me for a book review. I gave you a website that will give you a book review. I am only asking for what I gave you.
Give me a book, a study, anything. And I promise I won't ask you for a book review like you did me. JUST PROVE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING!!!
You're a disgrace to your profession.
When people on the boards find out that using your services means that Law Enforcement has access to their personal AS usage history I don't think people are going to be so interested in dealing with you. When they knock on your door and ask for your records you will give them up and everyone here who has used you will be exposed. When that day comes, and it will soon, it will be interesting to see how well you do trying to avoid THEIR questions like you do mine.
ulter--You have once again shown that you cannot back up anything that you say. So you post an extremely obscure work by someone you cannot even raise enough brain cells to properly quote. It REALLY isn't that hard to do--especially for someone who is so incredibly intelligent, or so you keep pounding on your chest trying to convince us all. And THAT is how you make your point? Then you want ME to prove a negative? That cannot be done. Logically speaking, that is impossible to do. It is a favorite trick of those who are on the wrong side of an argument--and know it.
Readers will notice that I did not ask Ulter to critically analyze any of that physician's studies. That would have been unfair of me, because everyone knows Ulter does not know how to critique a scientific study, as he has shown within the confines of this very thread. I am beginning to think he does not even know how to read.
You are getting your butt kicked here, because YOU have once again proven your extreme ignorance, so you what do you do? You revert to the same old childish nonsense--trying to scare my patients. What a loser thing to do.
Have you said the same of your beloved Dr. Scruggs? Oh, I'm sorry, that is "none of my business"--but everyone else's is yours. LOL. Well, not that the facts would mean anything to you, but I am not in violation of DEA law in any manner. And my business model was run by both the AG and CIS in my state, and there is nothing anyone can make a claim against my Medical License for. I have NEVER prescribed a steroid. Not even once. But even more important than that, my prescribing practices (in keeping with the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine) are completely supported by my Oath as a Physician. IOW, what I do, I do for the betterment of mens' health. All day, every day.
You are just a little boy who has been spanked for his childish behavior, and now wants to bang his head on the wall in tantrum.
Come on--come up with it! What does this doctor say? Hint: you could always get someone who knows how to read figure it out for you.
And BTW, THAT is not what the author is saying. It goes much deeper than that.
What your posting here demonstrates--once again--is that you do not possess even the most basic understanding of the fundamentals involved. I have read literally dozens of posts by you where you aptly prove your extreme ignorance. You just do not know how things work biologically. Of course, that would not in any way keep you from attacking someone who does.
Frankly, being called a "disgrace to my profession", coming from you, is a compliment. Or do you just think we have too many doctors willing to donate time after an 80-hour work week to these Boards, to try to help guys protect their health? It usually is a joy for me--except when dealing with characters like you.
I'll tell you what: when and IF the day EVER comes where you are able to post ANYTHING that includes even a modicum of intelligence, or a single salient point, I will be happy to respond. Until then, you are persona non grata.
Readers will notice that I did not ask Ulter to critically analyze any of that physician's studies. That would have been unfair of me, because everyone knows Ulter does not know how to critique a scientific study, as he has shown within the confines of this very thread. I am beginning to think he does not even know how to read.
You are getting your butt kicked here, because YOU have once again proven your extreme ignorance, so you what do you do? You revert to the same old childish nonsense--trying to scare my patients. What a loser thing to do.
Have you said the same of your beloved Dr. Scruggs? Oh, I'm sorry, that is "none of my business"--but everyone else's is yours. LOL. Well, not that the facts would mean anything to you, but I am not in violation of DEA law in any manner. And my business model was run by both the AG and CIS in my state, and there is nothing anyone can make a claim against my Medical License for. I have NEVER prescribed a steroid. Not even once. But even more important than that, my prescribing practices (in keeping with the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine) are completely supported by my Oath as a Physician. IOW, what I do, I do for the betterment of mens' health. All day, every day.
You are just a little boy who has been spanked for his childish behavior, and now wants to bang his head on the wall in tantrum.
Come on--come up with it! What does this doctor say? Hint: you could always get someone who knows how to read figure it out for you.
And BTW, THAT is not what the author is saying. It goes much deeper than that.
What your posting here demonstrates--once again--is that you do not possess even the most basic understanding of the fundamentals involved. I have read literally dozens of posts by you where you aptly prove your extreme ignorance. You just do not know how things work biologically. Of course, that would not in any way keep you from attacking someone who does.
Frankly, being called a "disgrace to my profession", coming from you, is a compliment. Or do you just think we have too many doctors willing to donate time after an 80-hour work week to these Boards, to try to help guys protect their health? It usually is a joy for me--except when dealing with characters like you.
I'll tell you what: when and IF the day EVER comes where you are able to post ANYTHING that includes even a modicum of intelligence, or a single salient point, I will be happy to respond. Until then, you are persona non grata.
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I suspect that for those of us with "compromised" livers, using niacin may not be the best approach. THere is some evidence that inositol hexanicotinate is a viable alternative.
jb
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Kruse W, et al. Nocturnal inhibition of lipolysis in man by nicotinic acid and derivatives. Eur J Clin Pharmacol 1979 Aug;16(1):11-5.
The effect of nicotinic acid and several derivatives on the nocturnal level of free fatty acids was studied in 12 healthy young women and men. Free fatty acids are an important precursor of plasma triglycerides and their concentration is highest at night. The drugs used were nictinic acid, beta-pyridyl-carbinol, mesoinositol hexanicotinate and xantinol nicotinate. The highest plasma nicotinic acid level was observed with beta-pyridyl-carbinol, but significant reduction in free fatty acids during the entire night was only achieved with inositolhexanicotinate and xantinol nicotinate. There was no correlation between the plasm levels of free fatty acids and nicotinic acid at any sampling time. If prolonged reduction in free fatty acid concentration is desired in the therapy of hyperlipidemias, the inositol and xantinol esters of nicotinic acid appear to be superior to the other preparations.
jb
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Kruse W, et al. Nocturnal inhibition of lipolysis in man by nicotinic acid and derivatives. Eur J Clin Pharmacol 1979 Aug;16(1):11-5.
The effect of nicotinic acid and several derivatives on the nocturnal level of free fatty acids was studied in 12 healthy young women and men. Free fatty acids are an important precursor of plasma triglycerides and their concentration is highest at night. The drugs used were nictinic acid, beta-pyridyl-carbinol, mesoinositol hexanicotinate and xantinol nicotinate. The highest plasma nicotinic acid level was observed with beta-pyridyl-carbinol, but significant reduction in free fatty acids during the entire night was only achieved with inositolhexanicotinate and xantinol nicotinate. There was no correlation between the plasm levels of free fatty acids and nicotinic acid at any sampling time. If prolonged reduction in free fatty acid concentration is desired in the therapy of hyperlipidemias, the inositol and xantinol esters of nicotinic acid appear to be superior to the other preparations.
That's an awful lot of typing just to cover up the fact you can't back up your assertion that short term rises in cholesterol causes CAD.
You can say the book is obscure and you'll probably say that the 112+ clinical studies it cites (See below) are all obsure as well. But none are as obscure as the clinic proof of what you claim. It seems your clinical evidence is so obscure that it doesn't exist.
Dr Scuggs doesn't post on the Anabolic Boards soliciting patients. And he's already been cleared by the DEA 3 times.
I just wonder how well you'll do when it's your turn. I have looked up post cycle therapy (pct) in the medical dictionary and it's not there. You've written whole articles on post cycle therapy (pct) all over the boards. And even though it's not a medical acronym that's what you practice isn't it? I'd say you're on pretty shaky ground there. I am glad you don't have MY name, address, and drug use history. Because if I was using illegal drugs and you were facilitating the felony by aiding me in my use law enforcement may not agree with your claim to be clean. In which case they would want to contact your other patients and ask for your records.
Do you know how I know this? I have seen it happen to someone just like you. And the board members were emailing me because they were contacted by law enforcement and wanted to know how much trouble they were in. Law enforcement got their names and addresses from the doctors records. It happened just 2 years ago. So it may be a lot more dangerous dealing with you than it appears even you know.
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3. Ekelund L-G, and others. Physical fitness as a predictor of cardiovascular mortality in asymptomatic North American men. The Lipid Research Clinics mortality follow-up study. The New England Journal of Medicine 1988;319:1379-84.
4. Thompson PD, and others. High density lipoprotein metabolism in endurance athletes and sedentary men. Circulation 1991;84:140 152
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13. The Expert Panel. Report of the National Cholesterol Education Program expert panel on detection, evaluation, and treatment of high blood cholesterol in adults. Archives of Internal Medicine 1988;148:36-69.
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- After having divided the children into three groups according to their blood cholesterol values the researchers found that the children with the lowest values ate less fat, both saturated and unsaturated, than the children with the intermediate and the highest cholesterol values. No difference was found between the two latter groups. The ratio between saturated and polyunsaturated fat was almost identical in all groups, however. This ratio, considered the best measure of the effect of dietary fat on blood cholesterol, was not calculated in the tables, nor was it mentioned in the text. Here the authors admitted on the one hand that the diet possibly played only a minor role in the development of atherosclerosis; on the other hand they said there was, ”as might be expected”, a relationship between saturated fat and blood cholesterol. And they added that ”such studies do reinforce the need for seriously considering general modifications of food patterns at a young age”.
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64. Garcia-Palmieri MR and others. Relationship of dietary intake to subsequent coronary heart disease incidence: the Puerto Rico heart health program. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1980;33: 1818-1827.
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68. Kushi LH and others. Diet and 20-year mortality from coronary heart disease. The Ireland-Boston diet-heart study. New England Journal of Medicine 1985;312: 811-818.
69. Khaw K, Barrett-Connor E. Dietary fiber and reduced ischemic heart disease mortality rates in men and women: a 12-year prospective study. American Journal of Epidemiology 1987;126:1093-1102.
70. Posner BM and others. Dietary lipid predictors of coronary heart disease in men. Archives of Internal Medicine 1991;151:1181-7.
71. Zukel WJ and others. A short-term community study of the epidemiology of coronary heart disease. A preliminary report of the North Dakota study. American Journal of Public Health 1959;49:1630-1639.
72. Finegan A and others. Diet and coronary heart disease: dietary analysis on 100 male patients. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1968;21:143-148.
73. Bassett DR and others. Coronary Heart disease in Hawaii: dietary intake, depot fat, "stress," smoking, and energy balance in Hawaiian and Japanese men. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1969;22:1483-1503.
74. Scrimshaw NS, Guzmán MA. Diet and atherosclerosis. Laboratory Investigations 1968;18:623-8.
75. Moore MC, Guzmán MA, Schilling PE, Strong JP. Dietary-atherosclerosis study on deceased persons. Journal of the American Dietetic Association 1976;68:216-23.
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76. Research committee. Low-fat diet in myocardial infarction. A controlled trial. The Lancet 1965;2:501-4.
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- Research committee to the medical research council. Controlled trial of soya-bean oil in myocardial infarction. The Lancet 1968;ii:693-700.
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- Burr ML, and others. Effects of changes in fat, fish, and fibre intakes on death and myocardial reinfarction: diet and reinfarction trial (DART). The Lancet 1989;2:757-61.
- Frantz ID, and others. Test of effect of lipid lowering by diet on cardiovascular risk. The Minnesota Coronary Survey. Arteriosclerosis 1989;9:129-35.
77. de Lorgeril M, and others. Mediterranean alpha-linolenic acid-rich diet in secondary prevention of coronary heart disease. The Lancet 1994;343:1454-9.
78. Muldoon MF, Manuck SB, Matthews KA. Lowering cholesterol concentrations and mortality: a quantitiative review of primary prevention trials. British Medical Journal 1990;301:309-314.
79. Ravnskov U. Cholesterol lowering trials in coronary heart disease: frequency of citation and outcome. British Medical Journal 1992;305:15-19.
80. Davey Smith G, Song F, Sheldon TA. Cholesterol lowering and mortality: the importance of considering initial level of risk. British Medical Journal 1993;306:1367-1373.
81. Bonneux L, Barendregt JJ. Ischaemic heart disease and cholesterol. There´s more to heart disease than cholesterol. British Medical Journal 1994;308:1038.
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82. Ravnskov U. Implications of 4S evidence on baseline lipid levels. The Lancet 1995;346:181.
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83. Hidaka Y, Eda T, Yonemoto M, Kamei T. Inhibition of cultured vascular smooth muscle cell migration by simvastatin (MK 733). Atherosclerosis 1992;95:87-94.
84. Meiser BM, and others. Simvastatin decreases accelerated graft vessel disease after heart transplantation in an animal model. Transplantation Proceedings 1993;25:2077-9.
85. Soma MR, and others. HMG CoA reductase inhibitors. In vivo effects on carotid intimal thickening in normocholesterolemic rabbits. Arteriosclerosis 13, 571-8, 1993.
86. The Scandinavian Simvastatin Survival Study Group. Randomised trial of cholesterol lowering in 4444 patients with coronary heart disease: the Scandinavian Simvastatin Survival Study (4S). The Lancet 1994;344:1383-1389.
87. Sacks FM and others. The effect of pravastatin on coronary events after myocardial infarction in patients with average cholesterol levels. New England Journal of Medicine 1996;335:1001-1009.
88. Shepherd J and others. Prevention of coronary heart disease with pravastatin in men with hypercholesterolemia. New England Journal of Medicine 1995;333:1301-1307.
90. Newman TB, Hulley SB. Carcinogenicity of lipid-lowering drugs. JAMA 1996;275:55-60.
90a. Enig MG. Trans fatty acids in the food supply: a comprenehsive report covering 60 years of research. Enig Associates, Silver Spring, Maryland 1993.
Enig MG. Know Your fats. The complete primer for understanding the nutritions of fats, oils, and cholesterol. Bethesda Press, Silver Spring, Maryland 2000.
91. Gurr MI. Dietary lipids and coronary heart disease: old evidence, new perspective. Progress in Lipid Research 1992;31:195-243.
92. Mann GV. Diet-heart: end of an era. New England Journal of Medicine 1977;297:644-650.
93. Mann GV. Coronary heart disease - "Doing the wrong things." Nutrition Today 1985;July/August:12-14.
94. Oliver MF. Dietary fat and coronary heart disease. British Heart Journal 1987;58:423-428.
95. Oliver MF. Might treatment of hypercholesterolaemia increase non-cardiac mortality? The Lancet 1991;337:1529-1531.
96. Oliver MF. Consensus or nonsensus conferences on coronary heart disease. The Lancet 1985;1:1087-1089.
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97. Pinckney ER and Pinckney C. The Cholesterol Controversy. Sherbourne Press, Los Angeles 1973.
98. Reiser R. Saturated fat in the diet and serum cholesterol concentration: a critical examination of the literature. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1973;26:524-555.
99. Reiser R. A commentary on the rationale of the diet-heart statement of the American Heart Association. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1984;40:654-658.
100. Friedman M, Rosenman RH, Byers SO. Deranged cholesterol metabolism and its possible relationship to human atherosclerosis: a review. Journal of Gerontology 1955;10:60-85.
101. Rosenman RH. The questionable roles of the diet and serum cholesterol in the incidence of ischemic heart disease and its 20th century changes. Homeostasis 1993;34:1-43.
102. Smith RL. Diet, blood cholesterol and coronary heart disease: a critical review of the literature. Vector Enterprises. Vol. 1, 1989; vol. 2, 1991.
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103. Stehbens W. An appraisal of cholesterol feeding in experimental atherogenesis. Progress in Cardiovascular Diseases 1986;29:107-128.
104. Stehbens WE. An appraisal of the epidemic rise of coronary heart disease and its decline. The Lancet 1987;1:606-611.
105. Stehbens WE. Serum cholesterol and atherosclerosis. New Zealand Medical Journal 1988;101:795-797.
106. Stehbens WE. Diet and atherogenesis. Nutrition Reviews 1989;47:1-12.
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107. Werkö L. Risk factors and coronary heart disease - facts or fancy? American Heart Journal 1976;91:87-98.
108. Werkö L. Prevention of heart attacks. Annals of Clinical Research 1979;11: 71-79.
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109. Other critical papers:
Ahrens EH. Dietary fats and coronary heart disease: unfinished business. The Lancet 1979;2:1345-1348.
Ahrens EH. The diet-heart question in 1985: has it really been settled? The Lancet 1985;1:1085-1087.
Altschule MD. The cholesterol problem. Medical Counterpoint Jan 1970, page 11; Can diet prevent atherogenesis? If so, what diet? Medical Counterpoint Nov 1970 page 13.
Apfelbaum M. Vivre avec du cholesterol. Éditions du Rocher, Monaco 1992.
Atrens DM. The questionable wisdom of a low-fat diet and cholesterol reduction. Social Science & Medicine 1994;433-447.
Berger M. The cholesterol non-consensus. In: Somogyi JC, Biró G, Hötzel D (eds), Nutrition and Cardiovascular Risks. Bibliotheca Nutritio et Dieta 1992;nr 49:125-130.
Berger M. Der Cholesterin-Non-Konsensus in der Primärprävention der koronaren Herzkrankheit. Zeitschrift für Kardiologie 1993;82:399-405.
Cliff WJ. Coronary heart disease: Animal fat on trial. Pathology 1987;19: 325-328.
Hulley SB, Walsh JMB, Newman TB. Health policy on blood cholesterol. Time to change directions. Circulation 1992;86:1026 1029.
McCormick J, Skrabanek P. Coronary heart disease is not preventable by population interventions. The Lancet 1988;2:839-41.
McMichael J. Prevention of coronary heart-disease. The Lancet 1976;2:569.
McMichael J. Fats and arterial disease. American Heart Journal 1979;98: 409-412.
Meade TW, Chakrabarti R. Arterial disease research: observation or intervention? The Lancet 1972;2:913-916.
Mohler H. Die Cholesterin-Neurose. Der Standpunkt des Ernährungswissenschaftlers. Salle-Sauerländer, Frankfurt am Main 1978.
Moore TJ. Heart failure. Random House, New York 1989.
Olson RE. CHD intervention trials and all-cause mortality. Circulation 1994;90:2569-2570.
Palumbo PJ. National Cholesterol Education Program: does the emperor have any clothes? Mayo Clinic Proceedings 1988;63:88-90.
Skrabanek P, McCormick J. Follies and fallacies in medicine. Tarragon Press, Glasgow, 1989.
Skrabanek P. Nonsensus consensus. The Lancet 1990;335:1446-1447.
Stallones RA. Ischemic heart disease and lipids in blood and diet. Annual Reviews of Nutrition 1983;3:155-185.
Worm N. Ernährung und koronare Herzkrankheit: Wie sinnvoll ist diät? (Nutrition and coronary heart disease: how important is diet?) Versicherungsmedizin 1995;47:116-121.
110. The Lipid Research Clinic's coronary primary prevention trial results. 1. Reduction in incidence of coronary heart disease. JAMA 1984;251:351-64.
111. Miettinen TA, and others. Multifactorial primary prevention of cardiovascular diseases in middle-aged men. JAMA 1985;254:2097-2102.
112. Marmot MG, and others. Epidemiologic studies of coronary heart disease and stroke in japanese men living in Japan, Hawaii and California: prevalence of coronary and hypertensive heart disease and associated risk factors. American Journal of Epidemiology 1975;102:514-525.
113. Marmot MG, Syme SL. Acculturation and coronary heart disease in Japanese-Americans. American Journal of Epidemiology 1976;104:225-247.
114. LaRosa, and others. The cholesterol facts. A summary of the evidence relating dietary fats, serum cholesterol, and coronary heart disease. A joint statement by the American Heart Association and the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute. Circulation 1990;81:1721-1733.
115. Anderson KM, Castelli WP, Levy D. Cholesterol and mortality. 30 years of follow-up from the Framingham study. JAMA 1987;257:2176-2180.
116. Ravnskov U. Quotation bias in reviews of the diet-heart idea. Journal of Clinical Epidemiology 1995;48:713-719.
You can say the book is obscure and you'll probably say that the 112+ clinical studies it cites (See below) are all obsure as well. But none are as obscure as the clinic proof of what you claim. It seems your clinical evidence is so obscure that it doesn't exist.
Dr Scuggs doesn't post on the Anabolic Boards soliciting patients. And he's already been cleared by the DEA 3 times.
I just wonder how well you'll do when it's your turn. I have looked up post cycle therapy (pct) in the medical dictionary and it's not there. You've written whole articles on post cycle therapy (pct) all over the boards. And even though it's not a medical acronym that's what you practice isn't it? I'd say you're on pretty shaky ground there. I am glad you don't have MY name, address, and drug use history. Because if I was using illegal drugs and you were facilitating the felony by aiding me in my use law enforcement may not agree with your claim to be clean. In which case they would want to contact your other patients and ask for your records.
Do you know how I know this? I have seen it happen to someone just like you. And the board members were emailing me because they were contacted by law enforcement and wanted to know how much trouble they were in. Law enforcement got their names and addresses from the doctors records. It happened just 2 years ago. So it may be a lot more dangerous dealing with you than it appears even you know.
1. Dattilo AM, Kris-Etherton PM. Effects of weight reduction on blood lipids and lipoproteins: a meta-analysis. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1992;56:320-328.
2. Craig WE, Palomaki GE, Haddow JE. Cigarette smoking and serum lipid and lipoprotein concentrations: an analysis of published data. British Medical Journal 1989;298:784-788.
3. Ekelund L-G, and others. Physical fitness as a predictor of cardiovascular mortality in asymptomatic North American men. The Lipid Research Clinics mortality follow-up study. The New England Journal of Medicine 1988;319:1379-84.
4. Thompson PD, and others. High density lipoprotein metabolism in endurance athletes and sedentary men. Circulation 1991;84:140 152
5. Assmann G, Schulte H. The prospective cardiovascular Münster study: prevalence and prognostic significance of hyperlipidemia in men with systemic hypertension. American Journal of Cardiology 1987;59:9G-17G.
6. Pocock SJ and others. High density lipoprotein cholesterol is not a major risk factor for ischaemic heart disease in British men. British Medical Journal 1986;292:515-519.
7. Gordon DJ and others. High-density lipoprotein cholesterol and cardiovascular disease. Four prospective American studies. Circulation 1989;79:8-15.
8. Pocock SJ, Shaper AG, Phillips AN. Concentrations of high density lipoprotein cholesterol, triglycerides, and total cholesterol in ischaemic heart disease. British Medical Journal 298, 998-1002, 1989.
9. National Research Council. Diet and health. Implications for reducing chronic disease risk. Washington D.C.: National Academy Press, 1989, page 166
10. Medalie JH and others. Five-year myocardial infarction incidence-II. Association of single variables to age and birthplace. Journal of Chronic Diseases 1973;26:325-349.
11. Gordon T. and others. High density lipoprotein as a protective factor against coronary heart disease. American Journal of Medicine 1977;62:707-714.
12. Watkins LO and others. Racial differences in high-density lipoprotein cholesterol and coronary heart disease incidence in the usual-care group of the multiple risk factor intervention trial. American Journal of Cardiology 1987;57:538-545.
13. The Expert Panel. Report of the National Cholesterol Education Program expert panel on detection, evaluation, and treatment of high blood cholesterol in adults. Archives of Internal Medicine 1988;148:36-69.
14. Kannel WB and others. Optimal resources for primary prevention of atherosclerotic diseases. Atherosclerosis study group. Circulation 1984;70:157A-205A.
15. Grundy SM. Cholesterol and coronary heart disease: a new era. JAMA 1986;256:2849-2858.
16. Hulley SB, Rhoads GG. The plasma lipoproteins as risk factors: comparison of electrophoretic and ultracentrifugation results. Metabolism 1982;31:773-777.
17. The Multiple Risk Factor Intervention Trial (MR.FIT), the Newcastle trial, the Lipid Research Clinic's trial, and the Helsinki Heart Study.
18. Yaari S and others. Associations of serum high density lipoprotein and total cholesterol with total, cardiovascular, and cancer mortality in a 7-year prospective study of 10000 men. The Lancet 1981;1:1011-1015.
- Ancel Keys. Seven Countries. A multivariate analysis of death and coronary heart disease. Harvard University Press 1980.
19. Rhoads GG, Gulbrandsen CL, Kagan A. Serum lipoproteins and coronary heart disease in a population study of Hawaii Japanese men. New England Journal of Medicine 1976;294:293 298.
- The Pooling Project Research Group. Relationship of blood pressure, serum cholesterol, smoking habit, relative weight and ECG abnormalities to incidence of major coronary events: final report of the pooling project. Journal of Chronic Diseases 1978;31:201-306.
20. Conference on the health effects of blood lipids: Optimal distributions for populations. Workshop report: Epidemiological section. Preventive Medicine 1979;8:612. No LDL data were presented in that report either.
21. Kannel WB, Castelli WP, Gordon T. Cholesterol in the prediction of atherosclerotic disease. New perspectives based on the Framingham study. Annals of Internal Medicine 1979;90:85 91.
22. Brown MS, Goldstein JL. How LDL receptors influence cholesterol and atherosclerosis. Scientific American 1984;251:52-60.
23. For more details, read the papers by William Stehbens
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28. Mathur KS, and others. Serum cholesterol and atherosclerosis in man. Circulation 1961;23:847-852.
29. Marek Z, Jaegermann K, Ciba T. Atherosclerosis and levels of serum cholesterol in postmortem investigations. American Heart Journal 1962;63: 768-774.
30. Méndez J, Tejada C. Relationship between serum lipids and aortic atherosclerotic lesions in sudden accidental deaths in Guatemala City. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1967;20:1113-1117.
31. Cabin HS, Roberts WC. Relation of serum total cholesterol and triglyceride levels to the amount and extent of coronary arterial narrowing by atherosclerotic plaque in coronary heart disease. American Journal of Medicine 1982;73:227-234.
32. Feinleib M, and others. The relation of antemortem characteristics to cardiovascular findings at necropsy. The Framingham study. Atherosclerosis 1979;34:145-157.
33. Pearson TA. Coronary arteriography in the study of the epidemiology of coronary artery disease. Epidemiol. Rev. 1984;6:140-166.
In his review Pearson mentions a number of angiographic studies which he claimed had found a relationship between blood cholesterol levels and degrees of atherosclerosis. But three of them found no relationship; one of them is reference 34, the other two are: Nitter-Hauge S, Enge I. Relation between blood lipid levels and angiographically evaluated obstructions in coronary arteries. British Heart Journal 1973;35:791-795, and Barboriak JJ, and others. Coronary artery occlusion and blood lipids. American Heart Journal 1974;87:716-721.
An unsupportive study was ignored by Pearson: Fuster V, and others. Arteriographic patterns early in the onset of the coronary syndromes. British Heart Journal 1975;37:1250-1255.
34. Cramér K, Paulin S, Werkö L. Coronary angiographic findings in correlation with age, body weight, blood pressure, serum lipids, and smoking habits. Circulation 1966;33:888-900.
35. Gore I, Hirst AE, Koseki Y. Comparison of aaortic atherosclerosis in the United States, Japan, and Guatemala. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1959;7:50-54.
36. Resch JA, Okabe N, Kimoto K. Cerebral atherosclerosis. Geriatrics 1969;November:111-132.
37. Ramsay LE, Yeo WW, Jackson PR. Dietary reduction of serum cholesterol concentration: time to think again. British Medical Journal 1991;303:953-957.
38. Shaper AG. Cardiovascular studies in the Samburu tribe of northern Kenya. American Heart Journal 1962;63:437-442.
39. Mann GV, Shaffer RD, Sandstead HH. Cardiovascular disease in the Masai. Journal of Atherosclerosis Research 1964;4:289-312.
40. Lapiccirella V., and others. Enquête clinique, biologique et cardiogra-phique parmi les tribus nomades de la Somalie qui se nourissent seule-ment de lait. Bulletin of the World Health Organization 1962;27: 681-697.
41. Day J, and others. Anthropometric, physiological and biochemical differences between urban and rural Maasai. Atherosclerosis 1976;23:357-361.
42. Nichols AB, and others. Daily nutritional intake and serum lipid levels. The Tecumseh study. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1976;29:1384-1392.
43. Weidman WH, and others. Nutrient intake and serum cholesterol level in normal children 6 to 16 years of age. Pediatrics 1978;61:354-359.
44. Frank GC, Berenson GS, Webber LS. Dietary studies and the relationship of diet to cardiovascular disease risk factor variables in 10-year-old children - the Bogalusa heart study. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1978;31:328-340.
- After having divided the children into three groups according to their blood cholesterol values the researchers found that the children with the lowest values ate less fat, both saturated and unsaturated, than the children with the intermediate and the highest cholesterol values. No difference was found between the two latter groups. The ratio between saturated and polyunsaturated fat was almost identical in all groups, however. This ratio, considered the best measure of the effect of dietary fat on blood cholesterol, was not calculated in the tables, nor was it mentioned in the text. Here the authors admitted on the one hand that the diet possibly played only a minor role in the development of atherosclerosis; on the other hand they said there was, ”as might be expected”, a relationship between saturated fat and blood cholesterol. And they added that ”such studies do reinforce the need for seriously considering general modifications of food patterns at a young age”.
45. Morris JN, and others. Diet and plasma cholesterol in 99 bank men. British Medical Journal 1963;1:571-576.
46. Kroneld R, and others. Hälsobeteende och riskfaktorer för hjärt- och kärlsjukdomar i östra och sydvästra Finland. Suomen Lääkärilehti 1990;45:735-739.
47. Kahn HA, and others. Serum cholesterol: Its distribution and association with dietary and other variables in a survey of 10,000 men. Israel Journal of the Medical Sciences 1969;5:1117 1127.
- Jeremyah Stamler's group performed a similar study on 1900 middle-aged men. This study is impossible for anyone but statisticians to evaluate, since absolute figures were absent, and not even simple correlation coefficients were given, except for the relationship between Keys'and Hegstedts formula. The relationship between the diet and the risk of dying from coronary heart disease after the age of 19 was also studied, but again without giving any figures. The amount of saturated fat in the diet did not show any relationship with the risk of dying from coronary heart disease, the authors admitted, but they added that it was not possible to draw conclusions from only one study; if their results were seen ”within the context of the total literature”, they supported the diet-heart idea. (Shekelle RB., and others. Diet, serum cholesterol, and death from coronary heart disease. The Western Electric Study. New England Journal of Medicine 1981;304:65-70.
48. Balogh M, Kahn HA, Medalie JH. Random repeat 24-hour dietary recalls. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1971;24:304 310.
49. Keys A. Atherosclerosis: a problem in newer public health. Journal of Mount Sinai Hospital NY 1953;20:118-39.
50. Yerushalmy J, Hilleboe HE. Fat in the diet and mortality from heart disease. A methodologic note. New York State Journal of Medicine 1957;57:2343-54.
51. Keys A. Coronary heart disease in seven countries. Circulation 1970;41 (suppl 1):1-211.
52. Jacobs D, and others. 1992. Report of the conference on low blood cholesterol: mortality associations. Circulation 1992;86:1046-60.
53. Grundy SM. Multifactorial etiology of hypercholesterolemia. Implications for prevention of coronary heart disease. Arteriosclerosis and Thrombosis 1991;11:1619-.
54. Marmot MG, Booth M, Beral V. International trends in heart disease mortality. Atherosclerosis Reviews 1982;9:19-27.
55. Guberan E. Surprising decline of cardiovascular mortality in Switzerland: 1951-1976. Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health 1979.;33:114-20.
56. Yudkin J. Diet and coronary thrombosis. Hypothesis and fact. The Lancet 1957;2:155-62.
57. Slattery ML, Randall DE. Trends in coronary heart disease mortality and food consumption in the United States between 1909 and 1980. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1988,47:1060-70.
58. Sytkowski PA, Kannel WB, D’Agostino RB. Changes in risk factors and the decline in mortality from cardiovascular disease. New England Journal of Medicine 1990;322:1635-41.
59. Marmot MG, and others. Epidemiologic studies of coronary heart disease and stroke in Japanese men living in Japan, Hawaii and California: prevalence of coronary and hypertensive heart disease and associated risk factors. American Journal of Epidemiology 1975;102:514-25.
60. Marmot MG, Syme SL. Acculturation and coronary heart disease in Japanese-Americans. American Journal of Epidemiology 1976;104:225-47.
61. Paul O and others. A longitudinal study of coronary heart disease. Circulation 1963;28:20-31.
62. Medalie JH and others. Five-year myocardial infarction incidence-II. Association of single variables to age and birthplace. Journal of Chronic Diseases 1973;26: 329-49.
63. Yano K and others. Dietary intake and the risk of coronary heart disease in Japanese men living in Hawaii. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1978;31:1270-1279.
64. Garcia-Palmieri MR and others. Relationship of dietary intake to subsequent coronary heart disease incidence: the Puerto Rico heart health program. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1980;33: 1818-1827.
65. Gordon T, and others. Diet and its relation to coronary heart disease and death in three populations. Circulation 1981;63;500-515.
66. McGee DL and others. Ten-year incidence of coronary heart disease in the Honolulu heart program. Relationship to nutrient intake. American Journal of Epidemiology 1984;119:667-676.
67. Kromhout D, Coulander CDL. Diet, prevalence and 10-year mortality from coronary heart disease in 871 middle-aged men. American Journal of Epidemiology 1984;119:733-741.
68. Kushi LH and others. Diet and 20-year mortality from coronary heart disease. The Ireland-Boston diet-heart study. New England Journal of Medicine 1985;312: 811-818.
69. Khaw K, Barrett-Connor E. Dietary fiber and reduced ischemic heart disease mortality rates in men and women: a 12-year prospective study. American Journal of Epidemiology 1987;126:1093-1102.
70. Posner BM and others. Dietary lipid predictors of coronary heart disease in men. Archives of Internal Medicine 1991;151:1181-7.
71. Zukel WJ and others. A short-term community study of the epidemiology of coronary heart disease. A preliminary report of the North Dakota study. American Journal of Public Health 1959;49:1630-1639.
72. Finegan A and others. Diet and coronary heart disease: dietary analysis on 100 male patients. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1968;21:143-148.
73. Bassett DR and others. Coronary Heart disease in Hawaii: dietary intake, depot fat, "stress," smoking, and energy balance in Hawaiian and Japanese men. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1969;22:1483-1503.
74. Scrimshaw NS, Guzmán MA. Diet and atherosclerosis. Laboratory Investigations 1968;18:623-8.
75. Moore MC, Guzmán MA, Schilling PE, Strong JP. Dietary-atherosclerosis study on deceased persons. Journal of the American Dietetic Association 1976;68:216-23.
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76. Research committee. Low-fat diet in myocardial infarction. A controlled trial. The Lancet 1965;2:501-4.
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- Dayton S, and others. A controlled clinical trial of a diet high in unsaturated fat in preventing complications of atherosclerosis. Circulation 1969;40(suppl 2):1-63.
- Leren P. The effect of plasma cholesterol lowering diet in male survivors of myocardial infarction. A controlled clinical trial. Acta Medica Scandinavica 1966;suppl 466:1-92.
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- Burr ML, and others. Effects of changes in fat, fish, and fibre intakes on death and myocardial reinfarction: diet and reinfarction trial (DART). The Lancet 1989;2:757-61.
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77. de Lorgeril M, and others. Mediterranean alpha-linolenic acid-rich diet in secondary prevention of coronary heart disease. The Lancet 1994;343:1454-9.
78. Muldoon MF, Manuck SB, Matthews KA. Lowering cholesterol concentrations and mortality: a quantitiative review of primary prevention trials. British Medical Journal 1990;301:309-314.
79. Ravnskov U. Cholesterol lowering trials in coronary heart disease: frequency of citation and outcome. British Medical Journal 1992;305:15-19.
80. Davey Smith G, Song F, Sheldon TA. Cholesterol lowering and mortality: the importance of considering initial level of risk. British Medical Journal 1993;306:1367-1373.
81. Bonneux L, Barendregt JJ. Ischaemic heart disease and cholesterol. There´s more to heart disease than cholesterol. British Medical Journal 1994;308:1038.
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82. Ravnskov U. Implications of 4S evidence on baseline lipid levels. The Lancet 1995;346:181.
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83. Hidaka Y, Eda T, Yonemoto M, Kamei T. Inhibition of cultured vascular smooth muscle cell migration by simvastatin (MK 733). Atherosclerosis 1992;95:87-94.
84. Meiser BM, and others. Simvastatin decreases accelerated graft vessel disease after heart transplantation in an animal model. Transplantation Proceedings 1993;25:2077-9.
85. Soma MR, and others. HMG CoA reductase inhibitors. In vivo effects on carotid intimal thickening in normocholesterolemic rabbits. Arteriosclerosis 13, 571-8, 1993.
86. The Scandinavian Simvastatin Survival Study Group. Randomised trial of cholesterol lowering in 4444 patients with coronary heart disease: the Scandinavian Simvastatin Survival Study (4S). The Lancet 1994;344:1383-1389.
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96. Oliver MF. Consensus or nonsensus conferences on coronary heart disease. The Lancet 1985;1:1087-1089.
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You do realize that the studies, from what I can see of their titles, back up what I, and very nearly all doctors say: that low HDL and high LDL is profoundly related to CAD. You REALLY didn't look at what you just took the time to post, did you? LOL. Your understanding of medical ethics and prescribing practices is entirely commensurate with that of your knowledge of health and medicine--nonexistent.
The only thing "dangerous" here is your lame advice. Sorry, but I have opinions from the AG, CIS, and DEA. There is nothing I am doing which in any way offends them. Once again, you are speaking through your sphincter. But it doesn't matter, for the gentlemen who come to me are far too intelligent, and discriminating, to waste a second of their time on any of your nonsense.
Oh, I see, Ulter, it is your position that I should not be answering questions for guys on the Boards, or trying to figure out the best way to protect their health.
Okay, well, I'll tell you what: I am not going to do it again. From this point on, I will NEVER answer another question from ANYONE when it pertains to Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use. And we will have to delete the report I wrote, on PCT, stickied all over the 'Net. Thank you for freeing me up from all the hours I would donated, spent helping guys I will never meet, here and elsewhere.
So now, when guys ask why they no longer have a doctor here helping them, I will send them to you for an answer. I am just plain sick of the harrassment I get from cowards like you, hiding behind your computer monitor, using a fake name. Thank you for what you have done for me, and everyone else on the Message Boards.
The only thing "dangerous" here is your lame advice. Sorry, but I have opinions from the AG, CIS, and DEA. There is nothing I am doing which in any way offends them. Once again, you are speaking through your sphincter. But it doesn't matter, for the gentlemen who come to me are far too intelligent, and discriminating, to waste a second of their time on any of your nonsense.
Oh, I see, Ulter, it is your position that I should not be answering questions for guys on the Boards, or trying to figure out the best way to protect their health.
Okay, well, I'll tell you what: I am not going to do it again. From this point on, I will NEVER answer another question from ANYONE when it pertains to Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use. And we will have to delete the report I wrote, on PCT, stickied all over the 'Net. Thank you for freeing me up from all the hours I would donated, spent helping guys I will never meet, here and elsewhere.
So now, when guys ask why they no longer have a doctor here helping them, I will send them to you for an answer. I am just plain sick of the harrassment I get from cowards like you, hiding behind your computer monitor, using a fake name. Thank you for what you have done for me, and everyone else on the Message Boards.
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