Test, tren, dbol and hgh cycle. Diet by 3J

[MickT]

Something feels off right side of the body...
Right side of neck is stiff af.
Right shoulder is mild injured, more strained then injury i reccon (biceps capsule)
Right knee is acting retarded and I have trouble walking correctly. Imagine you have to think/tell your brain to walk every step...its horrible... (this one is not training related, noticed couple days ago I walk "funny" so tried correcting it...bad bad choice...)
Right side upper body is just weaker overall if I hold dumbbells. (Could just be cause and effect from shoulder strain though)
Right index/point finger is swollen and it effects grip strength but mostly just annoying trying to roll blunts or play god of war on the ps4

Maybe its my old brain tumor thats acting up. Removed one surgically and lost the ability to walk on right leg but this is like 10 years ago...

Been reading up on side effects and the only thing that really fits everything would be low E2 but bloodwork has it high...

I'm not worried...but it makes me feel old as fuck... and i dont like it one bit

Fear is not a bad thing mate, its what keeps us alive during times of fight or flight. I may not know a lot about gear but my wife is a dr. I'll ask her about your symptoms and see what she says. In the mean time take it easy and be safe.

Regards MT

 

[PapaNoel]

Even on oxy/xanax, I feel so lost today...
Like I can barley keep my head above water... Not depressed or sad, just very confused and lost. Like the path went from sunny to cloudy...

So weird, one part of me is starting to doubt what the hell im doing...
The other part of me is contemplating and planning how a year long cruise / self medicated trt would look like and what long term effects it would have...
But mostly I think its just the narcissist part of me and wanting both the body and image I have planned in my head without having to put in the work...

Its not that im scared or anything, it just a lingering feeling that something feels off, and I'm normally very in tune with my body. And it bothers me not knowing whats going on... If something is even going on or maybe its all in my head...

Or maybe i'm just acting a bitch and need to man up... I just dont know at the moment...

Last cycle was more of a cruise really and maybe thats better for me than blasting because I felt so much better overall. I'm just hoping its not tren that made me feel so good.
Perhaps its all anecdotal coincidence and soon as my various "old age signs" stops showing itself it'll feel better...

Do any of you have these types of doubts while on cycle (or even off) ?

 

[scorob777]

Been thinking about future cycles and the only thing that I dont like about enanthate is the 6 weeks "waiting" period.
I know people use kickstarters such as dbol but was thinking, would it make sense to use both prop and enanthate and cutting off prop at around week 5 ?
How would you go about balancing the weekly dose when using 2 esters ?

Also been thinking a lot about deca, mostly because of you tank. Always the "therapeutic joint treatment" comments, makes deca look very attractable. My shoulders has always been bitching the past years and knee's have started to act up this cycle.
I have avoided deca because it stays in your system forever ever. That and not interested in trying 2 19-nors at the same time.

Still have in my head that cellular level changes occur after about 3 months and in my head, logic dictates it would be far easier to recover if the compounds itself doesn't stretch the cycles weeks longer, above the 3 months threshold.
Also why I was adamant running 8 and 10 weeks cycles.

Any thoughts ?

To answer your question about having AI dialed in before starting Tren, I think that would be wise. You've already done one blood test and came back pretty close, so wait a few weeks after adjusting your adex dose and get tested again with the standard testosterone and Roche ECLIA estrogen test - they will work fine without the 19-nors and you should find out you are right on the money.

Now regarding Deca, at the moment it's a love hate thing going on with me. I love the joint effects, and at high doses love the anabolic effects. Don't love any impact to the sex life. If you are going to blast and PCT then you just need to be careful, run Test a few weeks longer than Deca to give it a head start clearing out, or spend more cash and use NPP. I think if you plot the blood level curves and be careful about PCT timing & duration, and using HCG, then you can minimize the risks.

And as far at the 6 week build up period for enanthate, or 8 weeks for cypionate - you can front it to reduce that big time. Opinions seem really split on front loading, some folks say it doesn't work, some say it amplifies side effects. In my opinion it does work, and I think sides come from blood levels so I fail to see how ramping them up faster to the max would give anything more side effect wise than you'll see at the max. Meaning just take the full dose of AI and HCG from day 1, and you should be fine.

Here's an example showing a really simple way to front load. First chart is 500 mg/wk Test E, shot 2x per week, using 10 days for half life:

View attachment 567337

Notice how the curve builds up slowly over time. We say week #6, but you can see it really isn't maxed out yet. That doesn't happen until about week #8. This is for enanathate with 10 days half life, it is a bit worse for cyp with 12 days half life. So typical is to take an oral kickstart for 4 to 6 weeks to fill in that gap. Works great, but has the downsides of orals, like liver stress.

Now here is the same setup, except shot #1 is tripled to 750 mg (i.e. 3cc's for 250 mg/ml), and shot #2 is doubled to 500 mg (2cc's).

View attachment 567338

Notice how fast the blood levels build up. You are basically up on the max by week #3. Downside is the volume of the shots #1 and 2, and you are using the equivalent of 1-1/2 weeks testosterone extra that first week so you need to plan your number of bottles accordingly.

 

[PapaNoel]

To answer your question about having AI dialed in before starting Tren, I think that would be wise. You've already done one blood test and came back pretty close, so wait a few weeks after adjusting your adex dose and get tested again with the standard testosterone and Roche ECLIA estrogen test - they will work fine without the 19-nors and you should find out you are right on the money.

I really want to make sure its stable and within range, probably 110-120 pmol/l would be my personal sweet spot i believe. But not lower. So I'll play it safe and take 2-3x e2 panels before starting tren. Maybe once every 10 days from now to make sure. Is there any reason to get more testosterone panels while dialing in AI ? Its 3x the price of e2 panel so would add up quickly if not needed. Think i've asked this before and you said no, but just wanna make sure
So once I start tren, all test panels will be bunk for me, test, e2, prolactin ?

Now regarding Deca, at the moment it's a love hate thing going on with me. I love the joint effects, and at high doses love the anabolic effects. Don't love any impact to the sex life. If you are going to blast and PCT then you just need to be careful, run Test a few weeks longer than Deca to give it a head start clearing out, or spend more cash and use NPP. I think if you plot the blood level curves and be careful about PCT timing & duration, and using HCG, then you can minimize the risks.

Hmm, how bad is the impact on sex life ? I'm thinking more joint effects than blasting.
After this cycle, I was planning a cut cycle and was thinking of test e, low dose deca but npp looks better, winstrol(injectable if i can get my hands on it but source have only had pills so far).
Read that winstrol is a bitch on your joints so idea was to combat that with deca(now npp). Or should I just stick to test/tren/mast since I know my body both handles it well and "likes" it.
Or do you have a personal favorite cut cycle perhaps ?

And as far at the 6 week build up period for enanthate, or 8 weeks for cypionate - you can front it to reduce that big time. Opinions seem really split on front loading, some folks say it doesn't work, some say it amplifies side effects. In my opinion it does work, and I think sides come from blood levels so I fail to see how ramping them up faster to the max would give anything more side effect wise than you'll see at the max. Meaning just take the full dose of AI and HCG from day 1, and you should be fine.

Here's an example showing a really simple way to front load. First chart is 500 mg/wk Test E, shot 2x per week, using 10 days for half life:

View attachment 567337

Notice how the curve builds up slowly over time. We say week #6, but you can see it really isn't maxed out yet. That doesn't happen until about week #8. This is for enanathate with 10 days half life, it is a bit worse for cyp with 12 days half life. So typical is to take an oral kickstart for 4 to 6 weeks to fill in that gap. Works great, but has the downsides of orals, like liver stress.

Now here is the same setup, except shot #1 is tripled to 750 mg (i.e. 3cc's for 250 mg/ml), and shot #2 is doubled to 500 mg (2cc's).

View attachment 567338

Notice how fast the blood levels build up. You are basically up on the max by week #3. Downside is the volume of the shots #1 and 2, and you are using the equivalent of 1-1/2 weeks testosterone extra that first week so you need to plan your number of bottles accordingly.

Wow, that looks like a perfect compromise if I've ever seen one. I'm already getting tired of pinning every day... Doubt I'll do prop again unless very "niche" scenarios.
I also like the simplicity of it, what do you think about pinning enanthate/hcg every third day instead of 3.5 ? Would match npp's half life better as well or is eod needed ?

 

[PapaNoel]

Fear is not a bad thing mate, its what keeps us alive during times of fight or flight. I may not know a lot about gear but my wife is a dr. I'll ask her about your symptoms and see what she says. In the mean time take it easy and be safe.

Regards MT

Thanks a lot bro, that would mean a lot. Please do
Yes sir! i'm only taking it easy this weekend and watching netflix and playing new god of war, which is truly amazing by the way. Not quite like the old ones but better in most, if not all aspects. Really recommend it if you like ps4

 

[PapaNoel]

What is starting to appeal to me more and more is a cruise/trt setup.
Like, just straight test e, hcg and optionally ai (not sure I would even need one) and aiming for 1250ng/dl or 43.3pmol/l. (Maybe even just 1038ng/dl, which would be the highest reference value this side of the pond.)
That would be about double my natural production.

Add in pharma hgh to the mix and its all "natural", low to no side effects, no real negative health effects and better than average gains that are consistent throughout the year, no roller coaster effects so to speak.
While still leaving one summer blast/recomp option open.

Now if magically could remove needles from this equation and I'd be sold on it for life...

 

[MickT]

Thanks a lot bro, that would mean a lot. Please do
Yes sir! i'm only taking it easy this weekend and watching netflix and playing new god of war, which is truly amazing by the way. Not quite like the old ones but better in most, if not all aspects. Really recommend it if you like ps4

She said without knowing what your past or what the last few days have been like it could be hard to diagnose. But from the sounds of it could be your workout routine. Cross your fingers she said on the first one.

1.Lifting heavy. ie, squats, Deads, straight leg deeds, anything that could tweak your back that could cause nerve issues.

2.Something in your cycle causing Infection

3 Mini stroke- not un common

I didn't have long to speak with her as she was taking the kids to soccer. Again she doesn't know your issues or your past but just some insight.

Regards MT

 

[scorob777]

So once I start tren, all test panels will be bunk for me, test, e2, prolactin ?

Testosterone if not LC/MS is bunk, and estradiol if not "sensitive (which I think is also LC/MS)" i.e. not Roche ECLIA would be bunk on 19-nors. Prolactin is ok.

Hmm, how bad is the impact on sex life ?

My experience is either raging boners, or a boner that quits at the most inopportune time. I think my bad experience was from mixing Deca and Tren.

Or do you have a personal favorite cut cycle perhaps ?

I don't really buy into the whole bulk or cut thing. My goal is to be strong as fuck and deliciously built year 'round. Train for what you are doing, if not prepping for some one off stage appearance why train that way?

Regarding NPP pinning, any ester it's best to use half of a half life for pinning frequency if you want nice flat blood levels. NPP is 3-1/2 days, so half that is about EOD. That would be best, but E3D wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[PapaNoel]

I don't really buy into the whole bulk or cut thing. My goal is to be strong as fuck and deliciously built year 'round. Train for what you are doing, if not prepping for some one off stage appearance why train that way?

Regarding NPP pinning, any ester it's best to use half of a half life for pinning frequency if you want nice flat blood levels. NPP is 3-1/2 days, so half that is about EOD. That would be best, but E3D wouldn't be the end of the world.

Was just my assumption some compounds are better suited for different goals so to speak.
For example I assumed dbol/test/tren would probably be better at putting on mass.
While for example test/tren/winstrol would be better at shedding fat and harden up and expose the muscle definitions so to speak.
I'm an "all in" type of personality so I tend to take things and just run overboard with them, think you might have noticed that once or twice already lol. That combined with lack of experience has me all over the place, most of the time.

My ideal body type / unattainable goal (not enough discipline) would be to look like your avatar. Perfect fitness body with amazing symmetri without the "bodybuilding bloat" look. Please dont misunderstand the "bloat" comment, I just cant explain it that good.
Probably best explanation is that I prefer ripped over swoll bodytype. I'm fairly short and it doesnt really suit me to be "huge".

About your own goal, yeh, I agree fully, thats something i also want but consistency is something I lack. Thats why my appeal for a low dose cruise all year round seems way more ideal than only blasting occasionally.
However I'm worried about my ability to have kids, its something thats very important to me, want several actually. Thats my only health concern with steriods to be honest. Could you please share some insight on the dangers on that topic ? Does and donts, how to avoid, what causes it etc. Thanks!
Even something like 4 days training, 3 days rest and cruise, with only test and hgh year round is really starting to look like the best possible route to attain my goals.
Are you on trt or do you cruise and blast, if i may ask ?

Ohh, my bad, i googled the half life and first result said half life was 1 week, so assumed E3D would be ideal.
Hmm, now i'm not so sure about npp. I wanted to reduce the amount of pins. Maybe nandrolone is different but last cycle i really noticed the effects of not having stable blood levels. Makes gymday before next pin feel shitty.
But I'm also only looking for joint relief, thats what attracts me the most, want to find out how much difference it would feel, right now, i'm afraid of pushing shoulders due to the grinding feeling when training them.

 

[PapaNoel]

Lots of questions today

But was wondering how important FSH values are ?
Found out they have two different E2 panels.
One with only estradiol and one with estradiol and FSH.
Only estradiol is 50% cheaper.

Is there some sticky where I can read about all the different blood markers, their function and their importance ?
Googling them seperatly is pretty hard to understand as everything seems linked together.

Similarly to me buying supplements, all their descriptions seems worthwhile and they list generic conditions and stuff to sell their shit lol...
For example, just found cortisol test and DHEA test and their "selling points" are stuff like, prevented fatloss, and buzzwords that makes me want to test everything lol...

 

[PapaNoel]

She said without knowing what your past or what the last few days have been like it could be hard to diagnose. But from the sounds of it could be your workout routine. Cross your fingers she said on the first one.

1.Lifting heavy. ie, squats, Deads, straight leg deeds, anything that could tweak your back that could cause nerve issues.

2.Something in your cycle causing Infection

3 Mini stroke- not un common

I didn't have long to speak with her as she was taking the kids to soccer. Again she doesn't know your issues or your past but just some insight.

Regards MT

I understand, appreciate you asked bro.
Workout routine seems the most logical, body probably wasnt fully prepared and I pushed to hard.

1. Been going to both naprapat and chiropractor, she mentioned mild inflammation in biceps capsule, bloodwork shows elevated values that could point to an infection but doctor said values wasnt out of whack and could be training trauma from training to much.
2. Would probably have noticed it, difference last week has been adding anavar, might be an reason, but studied sides yesterday and nothing really matches up.
3. I'm gonna pretend i didnt see that lol...

Probably impossible to diagnose someone over the internet but im thankful she didn't have an "ohh fuck, send him to the hospital NOW for X reason". Can mentally calm down a bit. Means a lot.
Thanks bro for taking the time and please say thanks to wifey from me!

 

[scorob777]

Is there some sticky where I can read about all the different blood markers, their function and their importance ?
Googling them seperatly is pretty hard to understand as everything seems linked together.

https://www.steroidology.com/forum/...-i-came-across-seemed-pretty-informative.html

 

[PapaNoel]

Note to self(monday)
5th(today) day of running 0.20mg adex ED.
350 iu HCG (can this vial end soon so I can reconstitute a new vial that I wont shake...)

 

[PapaNoel]

Measurements done today.
0.6kg less and about 0.8% bodyfat less from previous week. (very impressive considering last weeks diet, had several cokes, chocolate cakes and candy, expected no bf loss or worse, gained...)
Soon I can make a super effort with diet, remove all sugars and start cooking myself and get on 3J's actual diet... Will probably lose 1-2% bf per week, "only" have 15% bf and 10 weeks left to go lol...

So basically lost 600gram fat, which is backed up by measurements.(Grown or stayed the same except for waist and thighs which is ~1-3cm less)

Leg day today so need to take my regular nap. Pictures etc coming later

 

[PapaNoel]

What is the caber dose ? Have to figure out how much to buy.

 

[PapaNoel]

Active coal tablets and oral steroids. Thoughts ?
Something is off with my stomach and can pretty much stand and take a shit...and been like this for ~48 hours now.

I was thinking of upping var from 60mg to 80mg ed.
Since the coal will absorb and remove uptake for anything I put into myself.

Or should I just keep running like I have been ?

 

[Milton]

Measurements done today.
0.6kg less and about 0.8% bodyfat less from previous week. (very impressive considering last weeks diet, had several cokes, chocolate cakes and candy, expected no bf loss or worse, gained...)
Soon I can make a super effort with diet, remove all sugars and start cooking myself and get on 3J's actual diet... Will probably lose 1-2% bf per week, "only" have 15% bf and 10 weeks left to go lol...

So basically lost 600gram fat, which is backed up by measurements.(Grown or stayed the same except for waist and thighs which is ~1-3cm less)

Leg day today so need to take my regular nap. Pictures etc coming later

stay off the cola. your better off drinking gasoline, kill you faster and less painful than carbonated drinks. stomach problems might be caused from that and all the cakes and sweets.

 

[PapaNoel]

stay off the cola. your better off drinking gasoline, kill you faster and less painful than carbonated drinks. stomach problems might be caused from that and all the cakes and sweets.

I actually didn't even buy the coke, it came free with home delivery food and I was weak so i drank them lol..
I did buy the sweets though

 

[PapaNoel]

Measurements is in.
Nothing special. Lost 0.6kg weight and 0.8% bodyfat.

View attachment 567342

 

[PapaNoel]

Uploading bit wonky but should still see them as attachments, no idea what I did wrong but something