Tren dick does not exist? Well, let me show you a pic...

[Old Duffer]

Haha, made ya look

So, I've seen more than once (but may not have been here) stated that there is no such thing as tren dick. That it's actually either out of control E2 or prolactin; it's not the tren itself. Thoughts?

File under the, your mileage may vary file. I have minor symptoms, prolactin nearly zero and E2 15.2, and without the tadalafil I'd be screwed. .... or actually NOT SCREWED.

Discuss.

 

[scorob777]

Old Duff, you have six years on me - so let me just throw out a question back at you.

Without any drugs, no cialis, no roids, no supplements, etc. do you think your willy would be working any better or worse than now?

 

[Old Duffer]

'Bout the same, Tank. 'Bout the same ;-)

What I was getting at tho is these 19nors have a rep for wilting willies and some random dude pops off about how "it's not the tren. It's the E2 or the prolactin out of whack because of the tren" . If I'm explaining that well enough?

End result is the same. I'm just curious what folks think. If you keep everything else optimized, can one run a 19nor without the predicted Willy sides?

 

[SJC]

It take me about 2-3 weeks and test/tren/mast turns me into a sexual tyrannosaurus. I think about sex all the time and can go 3-4 time a day. Not on the cocktail i'm a 2-3 times a week guy.

 

[SJC]

Guess I should ask what you consider "Tren Dick"? There is "Deca dick" which effects you being able to maintain an erection and in my opinion "Tren dick" is when you are so sexually charged up you can screw anything and everything like a crazed animal.

 

[scorob777]

****please do not tell people to go to other forums here read the board rules****

 

[appleton111]

Guess I should ask what you consider "Tren Dick"? There is "Deca dick" which effects you being able to maintain an erection and in my opinion "Tren dick" is when you are so sexually charged up you can screw anything and everything like a crazed animal.

I go for endurance when my Johnson gets a mind of its own with tren d***. an hour at a time with no problem. my girl loves it but the cat takes off and hides for a week.

 

[scorob777]

Milton could I cut & paste his info here? It really is good stuff.

 

[Milton]

Milton could I cut & paste his info here? It really is good stuff.

Please do as long as there in no mention/links of the site and thanks as we also would like to read up on this. Thanks!

 

[scorob777]

From a guy named Glycomann:

19 nor testosterone and prolactin-like issues
With use of 19-nor-testosterone compounds, such as trenbolone and nandrolone esters, there is a considerably high percentage of individuals who suffer from gynecomastia with galactorrhea (lactation from the nipple) and often times prolonged erectile dysfunction (ED). These are probably the most disturbing acute side effects experienced by the AAS user and bodybuilding enthusiast. The ED often lasts for over a year with little relief for the uniformed, although there are some drugs to combat these problems. There is still some mystery surrounding the exact cause of these side effects noted by users of the 19-nor compounds. In this article I will discuss what I think are the most likely mechanisms that lead to the above problems associated with these compounds and the best remedies for the side effects as well as strategies to avoid, minimize or mitigate them with use of these compounds.


19-nor compound Effects
Trenbolone and nandrolone, while classified as androgens, closely resemble the progestins as they have in common the absence of the 19 methyl present on the common precursor cholestane, which is the precursor of all steroid molecules in humans. Progestins are a group of synthetic compounds related to progesterone and are used therapeutically and in scientific research in the areas of fertility and cancer research. In estrogen primed tissue progestins are known to mediate breast development. Progesterone levels are known to correlate with prolactin secretion and progesterone receptor signaling is tied in with a signal transduction loop leading to the production of prolactin, an important protein hormone involved in gestational development of the breast as well as sexual function in both men and women. Due to the interaction of progesterone and prolactin with the tissues of the body the gestating woman takes on some necessary characteristics. Her breasts enlarge but do not secrete milk. The ovaries are altered and no longer secrete as much estrogen and switch primarily to progesterone secretion. Upon birth progesterone levels decline as the endometrium and sustaining tissues of the uterus are no longer needed. Once progesterone levels diminish lactation ensues under the direction of prolactin. Through the mechanoreceptors of the breast prolactin secretion is maintained and mother reaches a level of sexual satiation from prolactin***8217;s effects on sexual functions. A series of sex hormones including progesterone are maintained at a level that reduces FSH and LH resulting in continued suppression of ovulation.

Interestingly, there is a neuroendorcine link between dopamine secretion, progestins and prolactin secretion in the brain. In the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus there is a group of dopaminonergic neurons that are responsive to progesterones. Progenstins bind to neurons in this region and reduces dopamine secretion locally leading to increased prolactin secretion and decreased secretion of GnRH (and thus LH and FSH) into the hypophysial portal blood. This series of physiologic responses may explain the loss of sexual function in nandrolone and trenbolone users.

Bodybuilding and the Progesterone - Prolactin link

As stated above, progesterone signaling is correlated with increased levels of prolactin secretion from the anterior pituitary gland. Progesterone and progestins are strong suppressors of GnRH and therefore LH and FSH. Therefore, the presence of progestins like nandrolone or trenbolone could be expected to be strong HPTA suppressors in the male user. Prolactin is negatively regulated by dopamine and positively regulated by thyrotropin-releasing factor and other neuropeptides. The first compound and drugs that mimic it are important for mitigating the undesired side effects seen with use of the 19-nor androgens and these will be discussed later.

In some sense the male bodybuilder who uses 19-nor androgens has feminized his body to a similar state as that of a gestating or breast feeding woman. Much like the gestating woman his breasts begin to enlarge and may secrete a small amount of fliud. His gonads are atrophied and his LH and FSH are greatly diminished. Sexual activity is blunted as erections are far less frequent and he feels strangely satisfied as if he has achieved an orgasm recently but has not. These are the effects potentiated by the progestin like qualities of the 19-nor compound(s). How can this state be treated and, better yet, can this state be avoided while using 19-nor testosterone derivatives?

Many 19-nor androstane compounds, especially nandrolone, and their active metabolites are long lived and can go on causing problems far beyond the period of their use. So the effects of these progestin-like compounds can go on for many months. Although it is suspected that for instance nandrolone could bind to the progesterone receptor like its progestin cousins this is not known for sure. In fact it may induce progestogenic and estrogenic effects through interaction with the androgen receptor, although this mechanism is not understood. However, the overwhelming evidence as far as clinical presentation and response to therapy would indicate that prolactin is the end culprit in at least the sexual dysfunction side effects. As discussed previously, dopamine negatively regulates prolactin secretion. There are two effective medications that can mimic dopamine that have been used successfully and safely to control 19-nor associated side effects. These are bromocriptine and cabergoline. Both of these are ergot derivatives and potent D2 dopamine receptor agonists. These compounds will significantly reduce prolactin secretion. A dose of 2.5 mg/day for the former and 0.5 mg 2-3 times a week for the later seems to be effective doses. Another important observation is that breast tissue must be estrogen sensitized for progesterone / prolactin induced development and lactation to occur. Therefore it may be useful to include a mild dose of aromatase inhibitor when using these compounds.

Post Cycle Therapy for 19-nor Compounds

The bottom line is that after a drug regimen that includes these compounds the user will likely be severely HPTA suppressed. Unlike other compounds the 19-nor compounds have the added nuisance of long lived metabolites that appear to be active toward GnRH suppression and prolactin secretion. Therefore, the goal in a 19-nor androstane PCT will be aggressive in starting the HPTA with the added problem of suppression of prolactin secretion. The HPTA should be attacked on two fronts to include the testes and the hypothalamus. HCG will be used to mimic LH and FSH and a SERM such as tamoxifen and or clomiphene will be used. In addition, to control prolactin secretion, either bromocriptine or cabergoline will be added. A PCT to treat 19-nor compound use might look like the strategy outlined below.


Week

Minus 2-0 HCG 500 U EOD
0-6 Clomid 50 mg
3-8 Nolvadex 20 mg
Throughout Cabergoline 0.5 mg EOD


Other comments

Cabergoliner should be used throughout the cycle at 2 x per week at 0.5 mg to mitigate prolactin effects during 19-nor compound use. HCG can also be used at 250-500 U 2x a week intermittently throughout the cycle as well.
An aromatase inhibitor should also be used during 19-nor use and dose adjusted to the androgens used.

 

[scorob777]

Another from Glycomann:

Nandrolones and Impotence
A few words on deca and impotence... I would place an estimated guess that 90% of deca users experience some sexual dysfunction from nandrolones. That includes all esters, decanoate being the worst. Most already understand that nandrolones are a strong stimulator of the progesterone receptor. This is good and bad. There is a lot of debate over by what mechanism nandrolones lead to impotence. Personally I think it has to do with the progesterone receptors in the arcuate nucleus in the brain and those cells local secretion of prolactin but I really don't want to get into that here.

Here I want to describe what I've seen over the years in deca use. In the 80s everyone used deca. It was like an AAS base. A lot of guys got the dreaded droop from the drug and most machoed it up and said "not I". Well the gym groupies would let on what the real deal was. Lots and lots of guys have the problem. That's pretty much fact as most can reason from the 1000s of posts of users dealing with the problem.

It is unfortunate but the problem lasts a long time and its onset can be unpredictable. So, for instance, a user might do a full cycle with deca and experience only mild symptoms like increased sexual endurance, which might be viewed as a good side effect given the right girlfriend or wife. Then 4 weeks into the next run with it Dickie doesn't work at all. So the user goes through the common hoops listening to interweb lore upping the ratio of test to deca, adding in caber, hCG use, adding in proviron, adding in prami, and, while some relief might come from some of these interventions, nothing lasting comes from any of the.

Nandrolones seem to really whack the hormone axis in a way that lasts for many many months. The user might go completely off finally. Then the real fun begins. Size is lost and months after being off the impotence remains. So there is a tremendous blow to the ego. He has lost a lot of gains and his dick does not work mostly or at all. So he returns to AAS use convinced that he is hypogonadal and permanently so. On the test he goes and, while there might be some initial relief for a few weeks, the impotence returns. Now if he stays away from 19 nor compounds (including trenbolones) the impotence might subside but if any nandrolones are added in the situation will persist for much much longer. So this is a vicious cycle of confusion and suffering and the user will try many many things to relieve the situation... caverject, Viagra, Cialis, more prami, more caber, PT-141 etc... At various points he throws his hands up and adds in nandrolones reasoning that if the problem is permanent then at least he is going to benefit from the muscle mass and joint relief of the drug. This only makes the problem worse and longer lasting.

So what to do?

1. GO OFF!! If the user actually cycles (i.e. go off and on in a periodic fashion) and is under 50, he can recover from AAS use. That means he can go completely off AAS and eventually everything goes back to normal and Dickie works, natural gains can be made etc. This can take a year or even more depending on the user and what he has done to himself. I will say right here that most modern users will not take a year off. To them that is like being told to eat cat food and drink vinegar for a year. But it will work. The problem is it is a long process and the user will constantly be on the interwebs listening to every clown that can hit the keys on his PC telling him he is permanently damaged and to get back on immediately and do this or that protocol. So it rarely happens that a user will go off for long enough to recover. Another complication is that most modern users never ever ever come off so the user may have been on for several years. Such a situation can, but does not always, lead to permanent hypogonadism. So,the user reasons that going off for a year is ridiculous.

2. Stay on but away from trenbolones and nandrolones forever!! Eventually the symptoms of impotence will subside. They may not be completely resolved. Most don't understand that use of supraphysiologic levels of androgens/attenuated androgens does perturb the endocrine system. Since sexual function relies upon some resemblance of a normal endocrine system it should not be too difficult to understand that some level of impotence still will be experienced especially if nandrolones have thrown the system for a loop. However, eventually through nandrolone and trenbolone abstinence the problem will become more manageable with use of support medications.

3. Go off for a trial period!! Go off for 4-5 months. Do a strong PCT with hCG, Clomid and some Nolvadex and then stay off for some time. Go take a sailing class or something to keep your mind off your BBing goals. Get to the gym 3-4 days a week but stop obsessing about your body for 4-5 months. Wear a damn sweatshirt in the gym and stay away from the mirrors. Enjoy life for a while. Your body will come back in less than 8 weeks once you get back at it hard and add in the smallest amount of AAS again since your body will be at a new rested, recovered and eager state after the break.

During the break a number of sufferers will experience return of sex drive and erectile function. If that happens it was worth the hiatus. Then stay far far away from nandrolones and trenbolones or the problem will return and you will be older and further down the road of AAS use where recovery may be more difficult.

So cliff notes:

1. Nandrolones are a bitch
2. Impotence cocktails offer no or only temporary relief especially when the sufferer stays on AAS.
3. Onset of impotence related to nandrolones in unpredictable. It can happen suddenly even after nandrolone use without difficulty.
4. Abstinence from nandrolone (and trenbolone) use is probably the best way to resolve nandrolone related impotence.
5. Resolution of nandrolone related impotence may take a year or more and demands that no other 19 nor AAS are used during that period of recovery and ever again if the user wishes to avoid the experience again.
6. Trenbolone use can also lead to impotence so beware.

 

[Old Duffer]

Guess I should ask what you consider "Tren Dick"? There is "Deca dick" which effects you being able to maintain an erection and in my opinion "Tren dick" is when you are so sexually charged up you can screw anything and everything like a crazed animal.

That's an excellent point! Definition of. Was my assumption that these 19nors were the same when it comes to 'the limp dick' thing. My my inexperience is showing?

So 3 symptoms to define: trouble keeping the soldier at attention, difficult trigger pull or the complete opposite of out of control sexual desire.

In the case of the original post, I assumed it was about limp Willy but wow, I could have been reading it completely wrong!

Thanx all for the continued learning here

 

[SJC]

That's an excellent point! Definition of. Was my assumption that these 19nors were the same when it comes to 'the limp dick' thing. My my inexperience is showing?

So 3 symptoms to define: trouble keeping the soldier at attention, difficult trigger pull or the complete opposite of out of control sexual desire.

In the case of the original post, I assumed it was about limp Willy but wow, I could have been reading it completely wrong!

Thanx all for the continued learning here

When I know my prolactin is getting high when on Tren is when I can't orgasm. If I go for more than about 20-30 minutes and I have to try and orgasm I know I'm getting high and need to jump on caber. If I wait too long then I start getting the noddle dick.

 

[jonjrambo]

We talked a lot about the issue. It not the solution.
I feel that keeping my test higher than my Tren and Deca always helps.

How does Proviron play into this? I haven't tried it but read it helps with ED.

 

[jonjrambo]

But*

 

[Donaldesowl]

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[SoHo]

breaking news bro thanks

 

[appleton111]

If you want to create bigger muscle mass, enhance testosterone can easily facilitate a whole lot. It is simply because testosterone will be the hormone to dominates muscle mass growth as part of your group. In addition, it has a stunning extra fat shedding prospective and will allow you to get fat-free muscle. kreatin monohydrat.

Here live about operative as well as regular ways to help increase testosterone output with your group:

1. Try to eat Red Animal meat

Crimson meats is grand intended for rising testosterone with your group. First of all, it is drippings throughout zinc. Secondly, it really is a great ample fund regarding physical cholesterol and drenched fats. It is too dripping within nutritional like conenzyme Q10 as well as carnitine that the physique would need to generate testosterone. najlepsze od¿ywki.

Nonetheless, do not overload by using it due to the fact too much regarding scarlet meats may enhance saturated weights in your body that may be counter-top fruitful.

2. Avoid Sugar

Staying clear of sugar could also help improve ones testosterone stages. It is since sugar could decrease testosterone as part of your body, In line with a work, a dinner incorporating sugar can certainly lower testosterone by around 25%. What is worse ends up being to facilitate the item is able to keep a person testosterone stages minimal all night once you get give a sugars wealthy mealtime.

3. Try Tongat Ali

Tongat Ali is a plant that ends up being native in order to Asian lands like Indonesia along with Malaysia. It really is furthermore called extended jack. This can be a highly effective testosterone booster. That can easily help fuel your own testosterone amounts by an incredible 46%. A different interesting fact is in which that can support reduce estrogen inside your system.

4. Try Suma Origin

Suma main is additionally called the Brazilian Ginseng. It controls a substance called ecdysterone. This specific chemical substance becomes more violent than steroids this sort of as methandrostenolone in addition to dianabol. The facts all the more fascinating becomes that it's 100% normal and clear of all kinds connected with refusal side effects.

5. Spread Your current Garlic Consumption

You can find certainly not a lot of foods that can improve testosterone instantly. Nevertheless, garlic oil is an exception to this rule. This could improve your current testosterone stages practically instantly at drinking.

Garlic clove is excellent for improving body circulation also. It can easily alleviate increase ones sex drive or maybe sexual interest as well.

6. Look at a Natural Testosterone Health supplement

Normal testosterone health supplement are quite popular among bodybuilders. A number of the very best testosterone complements include factors like tribulus terrestris, l-arginine, ginseng, zinc etc.

thanks for sharing.

 

[soldier74]

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Here live about operative as well as regular ways to help increase testosterone output with your group:

1. Try to eat Red Animal meat

Crimson meats is grand intended for rising testosterone with your group. First of all, it is drippings throughout zinc. Secondly, it really is a great ample fund regarding physical cholesterol and drenched fats. It is too dripping within nutritional like conenzyme Q10 as well as carnitine that the physique would need to generate testosterone. najlepsze od¿ywki.

Nonetheless, do not overload by using it due to the fact too much regarding scarlet meats may enhance saturated weights in your body that may be counter-top fruitful.

2. Avoid Sugar

Staying clear of sugar could also help improve ones testosterone stages. It is since sugar could decrease testosterone as part of your body, In line with a work, a dinner incorporating sugar can certainly lower testosterone by around 25%. What is worse ends up being to facilitate the item is able to keep a person testosterone stages minimal all night once you get give a sugars wealthy mealtime.

3. Try Tongat Ali

Tongat Ali is a plant that ends up being native in order to Asian lands like Indonesia along with Malaysia. It really is furthermore called extended jack. This can be a highly effective testosterone booster. That can easily help fuel your own testosterone amounts by an incredible 46%. A different interesting fact is in which that can support reduce estrogen inside your system.

4. Try Suma Origin

Suma main is additionally called the Brazilian Ginseng. It controls a substance called ecdysterone. This specific chemical substance becomes more violent than steroids this sort of as methandrostenolone in addition to dianabol. The facts all the more fascinating becomes that it's 100% normal and clear of all kinds connected with refusal side effects.

5. Spread Your current Garlic Consumption

You can find certainly not a lot of foods that can improve testosterone instantly. Nevertheless, garlic oil is an exception to this rule. This could improve your current testosterone stages practically instantly at drinking.

Garlic clove is excellent for improving body circulation also. It can easily alleviate increase ones sex drive or maybe sexual interest as well.

6. Look at a Natural Testosterone Health supplement

Normal testosterone health supplement are quite popular among bodybuilders. A number of the very best testosterone complements include factors like tribulus terrestris, l-arginine, ginseng, zinc etc.

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