Deca and Joints

JAFS

New member
In my past I have been a salvage diver, carpenter, and scaffolder. My joints hate me!!

Next cycle looks like so, was thinking about adding 500-600 mgs of Deca, from the articles on the web, they all say it's good for joints, but I figure I would ask those who have actually used it. If it is good, does it only last while on cycle??

Weeks 1-5 D-Bol 40 mgs , 10 mg AM, 20 mg 1.5 hrs before workout, 10 mgs PM
Weeks 1-4 Prop starting at 200 mg EOD with taper to 50 mg EOD week 4
Weeks 2-12 Enan 400 mgs Tuesday/Friday (800 total/week)
Week 13 Prop 100 mgs EOD

Prop ending as Enan will take upwards of 21 days to clear and with the prop I can keep levels up for another week while I wait to administer HCG then Serms.

Thanks for the help.:beertoast
 
run the Test E from week 1 and the Test prop run along with your Test E in week 12, just the prop in week 13, post cycle therapy (pct) week 15-18

deca will help a little bit, but not as much as people claim... weed does help haha
 
glocosimine and chondroitan for joints.

As my joint dr says, if it worked that good, it would have to be prescribed. If it works, then great but don't expect miracles.

I have had major pain in my knees recently and it was just steady pain, nothing sharp. Had an MRI done on both joints, no tears. We did a cortisone injection on both knees and the pain is gone. We are also going to be doing a lubrication injection soon too. Might want to check into that.
 
run the Test E from week 1 and the Test prop run along with your Test E in week 12, just the prop in week 13, post cycle therapy (pct) week 15-18

deca will help a little bit, but not as much as people claim... weed does help haha

Thanks, I always liked my weed, but too many piss tests and I can't be bothered to fake them. LOL.
 
I gotta say, as soon as I started the Deca, my joints were like a teenager again. Lasted throughout my entire 16 week cycle. As soon as I went off, I could feel a change in my joints. After my PCT, I am happy to report that my joints feel better than they did before I started my cycle, but no where near as great as they did on cycle. I'm personally sold on Deca for joints, as I would have never been able to push myself as hard as I did and make the gains I did without it.
 
My experience is that the effects of deca on joint pain relief are over rated. I started cycling specifically because I was looking for options to making the osteoarthritis more tolerable. My first cycle with deca was probably the best in terms of benefits. I ran 400mg of test cyp and 250mg of deca. Didn't get a lot of size/strength gain but that wasn't my intention. I have since run a variety of cycles and included deca each time at different doses. I have run it at 400mg, 500mg, and 600mg. None have been anywhere near as beneficial for joint pain relief as that first cycle and any benefits you do get are limited to time on cycle. I suspect deca has had diminishing benefit as I have increased my dosage because I have also increase my test cyp dose with each cycle. The more test you use the harder it is on the joints.

Glucosamine & condroitin are a fucking joke. At least in my experience. They do nothing for mitigating the symptoms of my OA and I've tried various brands and dose over about a decade. That money spent was completely pissed down the drain.
 
"While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen syn while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood
Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.
 
My $.02....really try hard for glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM.

Facts
*Glucosamine supports healthy joint function and promotes joint flexibility and mobility
-Glucosamine is one of a few substances classified as an "amino sugar". These types of sugars are not used in the body as energy but rather by the body's tissues.

*Chondroitin helps support healthy joints and bones.
-Chondoitin sulfate is a major constituent of cartilage, providing structure and holding water and nutriets.

*MSM (Methylsulfonyl-methane) is an organic sulfur found within connective tissues and joint cartilage.
-A precursor of MSM is formed initially by ocean plankton and released into the atmosphere

*Fish Oils are just all around good for the serious body builder here.
-Promote the body's natural anti-inflammatory response*
-Support healthy cholesterol levels*
-Maintain brain, skin, eye and joint health
-Clinically proven to support healthy blood pressure

In no means do i wanna sound like a cocky smart ass here. I just wanna help. This shit is my damn major so im decently knowledgable. I hope you can see and understand why all these products are soo extremely important. They only reason why it would not work for you is if your buying a shitty knock off brand or not getting s high enough dosage.

How your joints feel better and i hope i connected a few more dots for ya!
 
My $.02....really try hard for glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM.

Facts
*Glucosamine supports healthy joint function and promotes joint flexibility and mobility
-Glucosamine is one of a few substances classified as an "amino sugar". These types of sugars are not used in the body as energy but rather by the body's tissues.

*Chondroitin helps support healthy joints and bones.
-Chondoitin sulfate is a major constituent of cartilage, providing structure and holding water and nutriets.

*MSM (Methylsulfonyl-methane) is an organic sulfur found within connective tissues and joint cartilage.
-A precursor of MSM is formed initially by ocean plankton and released into the atmosphere

*Fish Oils are just all around good for the serious body builder here.
-Promote the body's natural anti-inflammatory response*
-Support healthy cholesterol levels*
-Maintain brain, skin, eye and joint health
-Clinically proven to support healthy blood pressure

In no means do i wanna sound like a cocky smart ass here. I just wanna help. This shit is my damn major so im decently knowledgable. I hope you can see and understand why all these products are soo extremely important. They only reason why it would not work for you is if your buying a shitty knock off brand or not getting s high enough dosage.

How your joints feel better and i hope i connected a few more dots for ya!

Cheers, I appreciate the help.

JAFS
 
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