Deca for medicinal purposes

[bigben66]

Thanks fellas...

No, my doc hasn't verified the not requiring the AI - to be honest I am totally new to the undecanoate ester so I just had to take his word for it. My bloods so far have backed this up though as E2 is well within range

I'll start with 0.25 E3.5D and check bloods consistently when I introduce the HCG and Deca

 

[Megatron28]

Thanks fellas...

No, my doc hasn't verified the not requiring the AI - to be honest I am totally new to the undecanoate ester so I just had to take his word for it. My bloods so far have backed this up though as E2 is well within range

I'll start with 0.25 E3.5D and check bloods consistently when I introduce the HCG and Deca

How about go with "trust but verify"?

If I recall correctly, you have been checking trough TT and E2 levels. It would be useful to also see what your E2 is at after an injection and your TT is at its peak.

When I was pinning test cyp once a week, my E2 on Day 7 was around 30. On Day 2 is was around 100. My TT was ranging from something like 350-1000 too.

You can argue all you want about how the undecanoate ester is slower releasing, but you are still going to have a range with a peak and a trough unless you are on an IV drip.

 

[bigben66]

How about go with "trust but verify"?

If I recall correctly, you have been checking trough TT and E2 levels. It would be useful to also see what your E2 is at after an injection and your TT is at its peak.

When I was pinning test cyp once a week, my E2 on Day 7 was around 30. On Day 2 is was around 100. My TT was ranging from something like 350-1000 too.

You can argue all you want about how the undecanoate ester is slower releasing, but you are still going to have a range with a peak and a trough unless you are on an IV drip.

I totally agree with you Megatron, I really do...

But please bear in mind I live in the UK...

My treatment and medication are 'free' here on the National Health Service but because of that, I get the doctor I am given, I can't choose. I have to go with everything he gives me and I am tested for whatever he requests...

We do not have 'Private Labs' here in the UK that I can use for my own personal blood tests - I know there is a clinic in London (800 miles away) that you can visit and get tests done - but there is nowhere nearby suitable for my needs.

I guess the only way I could get him to test for E2 is if I either invent E2 sides - or actually suffer from them and suggest it could be raised E2. Until then, I get tested for TT only.

I'm not going to chastise my doc at this stage - as he allows me to email him whenever I want and relay my feedback. He really does seem to have good intentions and I am feeling 100 times better than I did last year. I certainly don't show any raised E2 sides at this stage - whether I get them when I add Deca and HCG is a different matter.

Thanks for your opinions - but bear in mind - TRT is a totally different 'ball game' over here (pardon the pun!)

BigBen

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Just a little update, I am now entering my 4th week of Deca @ 400mg per week and contrary to what I had expected I have the dreaded deca dick...

I had some fun with this gorgeous milf tonight and my dick just would not get fully hard or stay hard which I have noticed is progressively getting worse since starting the deca. I got home, took .05mg, yes .05mg not .5mg of prami (.125mg tabs cut in half).

This is on 250mg Test E and 400mg Deca... If the prami doesn't take care of the ED or it turns out to be too harsh which I doubt as I only plan on sticking to the lowest dose possible to control prolactin, I may just farewell the deca or drop it down to a dose purely for joint benefits which I have noticed 4 weeks in joints do not feel as stiff and pain is far reduced, specifically in my shoulders and knees... I will give it more time though.

Initially the deca actually made me last even longer which slowly turned into ED and very hard to get off. Fingers crossed the prami does it's job. Will report back on it!

 

[Megatron28]

Just a little update, I am now entering my 4th week of Deca @ 400mg per week and contrary to what I had expected I have the dreaded deca dick...

I had some fun with this gorgeous milf tonight and my dick just would not get fully hard or stay hard which I have noticed is progressively getting worse since starting the deca. I got home, took .05mg, yes .05mg not .5mg of prami (.125mg tabs cut in half).

This is on 250mg Test E and 400mg Deca... If the prami doesn't take care of the ED or it turns out to be too harsh which I doubt as I only plan on sticking to the lowest dose possible to control prolactin, I may just farewell the deca or drop it down to a dose purely for joint benefits which I have noticed 4 weeks in joints do not feel as stiff and pain is far reduced, specifically in my shoulders and knees... I will give it more time though.

Initially the deca actually made me last even longer which slowly turned into ED and very hard to get off. Fingers crossed the prami does it's job. Will report back on it!

Make sure to check your estradiol. You most likely have elevated estradiol now as deca aromatizes.

Most guys work up to .25-.50mgnof prami daily. All that dopamine makes for a happy camper especially with high test in the mix!

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Yep just awaiting e2 results, it sits around ~120pmol/L (top of ref 150pmol/L) with .5mg adex MWF so I'm taking a guess but I'd say it's anywhere between 150-200. However E2 has never caused me ED even when sky high, quite the opposite in fact libido stays the same if not better. I also am not bothered by by e2 being a little on the high side when doing a blast for the added benefits.

Yes, have come across Prami as having multiple benefits just to name a few, anti-depressant, sleep aid, GH secratogue (yes, skeptical on how useful it is), supposedly combats prolactin at very low doses as well lower than what most guys on here use it and the big one libido...Seems good to me!

EDIT: Currently running Prami at .125mg ED and will see how this dose goes after a weekn which by then will most likely bump it up to .25mg

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Just another little update, have been running Prami for 6 days now at .125mg per day and this morning have noticed that it has begun to work as libido is increasing and I have this sense of well-being that I had when I first ever went on Test. Quite smooth actually and I feel quite good! Wood is comming back and is much better than before, not going completely soft mid-sex anymore as well. I will probably stick with .125mg for another day or two then bump it up to .25mg and probably to .5mg ED and cut it off there.

I have read mixed opinions on this, however some people claim Prami to lean them out a bit via the increase in GH output (yes controversial, but apart from that focussing on the leaning out effect is enough on it's own to warrant it). However I am not chasing that so much, rather for the effect it has had on my mood as well and the important one getting my sex drive and wood back strong as it previously was.

Prami seems like quite a beneficial drug compound to using for a few reasons...

 

[Megatron28]

Just another little update, have been running Prami for 6 days now at .125mg per day and this morning have noticed that it has begun to work as libido is increasing and I have this sense of well-being that I had when I first ever went on Test. Quite smooth actually and I feel quite good! Wood is comming back and is much better than before, not going completely soft mid-sex anymore as well. I will probably stick with .125mg for another day or two then bump it up to .25mg and probably to .5mg ED and cut it off there.

I have read mixed opinions on this, however some people claim Prami to lean them out a bit via the increase in GH output (yes controversial, but apart from that focussing on the leaning out effect is enough on it's own to warrant it). However I am not chasing that so much, rather for the effect it has had on my mood as well and the important one getting my sex drive and wood back strong as it previously was.

Prami seems like quite a beneficial drug compound to using for a few reasons...

If anything, the leaning out would come from more frequent and longer sex.

 

[MBB]

Prami seems like quite a beneficial drug compound to using for a few reasons...

Is there any benefit to running a really low dose prami purely for the libido boosting purposes?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

If anything, the leaning out would come from more frequent and longer sex.

Lol wouldn't surprise ! Now I don't have to feel so bad about dropping my cardio

Is there any benefit to running a really low dose prami purely for the libido boosting purposes?

Absolutely, I know some guys run Prami purely for the benefit on libido and mood and some for the GH benefit or to be specific to leaning out benefit it gives whether or not it is from GH release or not. IIRC it causes up regulation of D2 and D3 receptors that it actually binds too which is funny because I would have thought down regulation would occur.

 

[MBB]

Absolutely, I know some guys run Prami purely for the benefit on libido and mood and some for the GH benefit or to be specific to leaning out benefit it gives whether or not it is from GH release or not. IIRC it causes up regulation of D2 and D3 receptors that it actually binds too which is funny because I would have thought down regulation would occur.

So how low of a dose is safe? I've heard that too much for too long can lead to DAWS (Dopamine Agonist Withdrawal Syndrome) which from what I've heard is hell.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

It's hard to answer that, but the lowest dose you could use would be the best bet if you are going to use it. I only plan on running it for the length that I am on the deca and at a low dose which I will taper down off. I am currently on .125mg ED and will be for another week, then I will bump it up to .25mg ED and see how I go on that but probably will not go over .5mg ED. We will see how it goes.

I have not come across many reports where people have had serious withdrawal from Prami (on AAS forums, used at AAS doses so we are talking .25mg upwards of 1.5mg ED not Parkinsons doses which is somewhere around 5mg ED and taken long-term). Whenever people, using it at AAS doses, have reported any withdrawl of some kind it is usually a dip in mood which if you experience could probably be dampened with a taper. Going with that, I think DAWS is only a problem in people using high doses of a DA for extended periods of time.

Parkinsons sufferers for example already have a faulty/degraded dopamine system and after being on say 5mg ED of Prami for such a long time, coming off it will only make sense to experience serious withdrawal... Not only that but I am not sure if Prami prevents further breakdown of the dopamine system (IIRC it educes natural DA oxidative stress by a bit helping slow the progression somewhat but not majorly) but whos to say the patient going through DAWS after being on a Dopamine agonist for 2 years for parkinsons didn't experience further breakdown of the dopamine system in which it was covered by the dopamine agonist?

I can't guarantee this, but IMO opinion and this is my opinion, using prami for a few months at a low dose shouldn't cause any DAWS and at worst you might experience a little depression when you come off. Keeping the dose to the lowest you can use is your safest bet.

 

[waceyf]

It's hard to answer that, but the lowest dose you could use would be the best bet if you are going to use it. I only plan on running it for the length that I am on the deca and at a low dose which I will taper down off. I am currently on .125mg ED and will be for another week, then I will bump it up to .25mg ED and see how I go on that but probably will not go over .5mg ED. We will see how it goes.

I have not come across many reports where people have had serious withdrawal from Prami (on AAS forums, used at AAS doses so we are talking .25mg upwards of 1.5mg ED not Parkinsons doses which is somewhere around 5mg ED and taken long-term). Whenever people, using it at AAS doses, have reported any withdrawl of some kind it is usually a dip in mood which if you experience could probably be dampened with a taper. Going with that, I think DAWS is only a problem in people using high doses of a DA for extended periods of time.

Parkinsons sufferers for example already have a faulty/degraded dopamine system and after being on say 5mg ED of Prami for such a long time, coming off it will only make sense to experience serious withdrawal... Not only that but I am not sure if Prami prevents further breakdown of the dopamine system (IIRC it educes natural DA oxidative stress by a bit helping slow the progression somewhat but not majorly) but whos to say the patient going through DAWS after being on a Dopamine agonist for 2 years for parkinsons didn't experience further breakdown of the dopamine system in which it was covered by the dopamine agonist?

I can't guarantee this, but IMO opinion and this is my opinion, using prami for a few months at a low dose shouldn't cause any DAWS and at worst you might experience a little depression when you come off. Keeping the dose to the lowest you can use is your safest bet.

Let's think about this for a minute. I personally take Suboxone(a dopamine agonist fir recovering opioid addicts) basically it helps bridge between dependency on heroin, oxy, lortab, etc. To complete sobriety. Some may take this drug for life due to permanent damage to receptors or simply because it makes them feel safer from relapse. While taking this drug it blocks opioids and won't allow you to "get high"... Now my dr tells me I'm at no danger of permanent damage to my receptors from suboxone alone and that if I didn't permanently damage my receptors from oxy then the suboxone won't cause further damage. So I guess what I'm getting at is if one can go through literally a fraction of the detox while using suboxone as opposed to stronger opioids then I can't see Prami causing anything severe. I could see minor, and I do mean very minor depression for a short term after coming off I cannot see any reason to indicate there being any permanent or long term issues. Maybe some with a prior chemical dependency may struggle a bit harder but nothing compared to detox from heroine or oxy.



***EDIT - Suboxone is actually a opioid agonist not a dopamine agonist. Although I still think the point I was trying to make is still valid.

 

[MBB]

It's hard to answer that, but the lowest dose you could use would be the best bet if you are going to use it. I only plan on running it for the length that I am on the deca and at a low dose which I will taper down off. I am currently on .125mg ED and will be for another week, then I will bump it up to .25mg ED and see how I go on that but probably will not go over .5mg ED. We will see how it goes.

You mentioned that after this blast you'll most likely drop the Deca down to 100mg a week. Any chance you'll run a low dose prami with this indefinitely as well?

 

[bigben66]

Sorry guys, been away from the site for a while... all good input on here, great information!

Any more progress with the deca?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

You mentioned that after this blast you'll most likely drop the Deca down to 100mg a week. Any chance you'll run a low dose prami with this indefinitely as well?

Sorry dude didn't notice your post.

I am currently on .125mg Prami and believe it or not has done the trick in solving the deca dick on 400mg per week will probably up the dose to .25mg and at the maximum .5mg but my goal was to solve the deca dick, bumping the dose up is just going to make my pockets a little lighter and my libido is back quite strong, although lasting far too long still. Granted I know my e2 is a little high as my AI dose is still the same to cover my 250mg Test only so it will be raised right now for sure but I can't imagine it being too bad. I'm on 30mg Raloxifene currently as well so that may be offsetting some high e2 effects.

Sometimes more is not always better.

At 100mg Deca per week I honestly think it would do nothing negative, rather increase endurance as I noticed within the first few weeks my libido was still strong, but I could last even longer and then it slowly turned into not being able to finish and limp dick etc. So no I won't be running Prami with 100mg deca. I plan on coming off the Prami after my blast with the deca and a possible transition into a short run with Masteron to cut up a bit (maybe, see how I end up after the deca), I want to get off this Raloxifene as soon as the lumps clear up as well so I can return to my TRT dose with some Deca and look at adding in hCG to my protocol (believe it or not doc asked me when I feel ready to start adding it maintain fertility but also the backstream shutdown of hormones without LH) and get all dialed in with that (Possibly 200mg Test/100mg Deca/500iu hCG weekly).

 

[bigben66]

So, if you were just going to run your TRT dose of Test, and medicinal dose of say 100-150 Deca...

What ancillaries would you run alongside this Staunched?

No Prami, and a low AI?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Correct, no Prami. Ofcourse, if 100mg does cause prolactin issues/ED which it won't, I'll probably just drop it all together.

On 250mg Test split 2x per week, .5mg Adex M/W/F has me e2 in the perfect spot for me. Lowering the test a bit and with 100mg of Deca, assuming it aromatases at a far lower rate is hopefully going to mean I won't have to change my adex dose. I'm really chasing my tail answering this question though, as the final answer is all based on bloodwork, but no I would rather not run Prami with that 100mg deca if I don't have to. Just more stuff to be taking.

 

[Megatron28]

The key to running deca without a DA is masterfully managing your estradiol. If you can't do that add in a DA.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

My fingers are crossed that reduction in Test will offset any e2 metabolised from deca and I can keep my AI dosage the same.