Deca for medicinal purposes

[luckypaul]

I have used deca in many of the cycles I have ran in the past and I feel it does help keep my joints from being so achy. There are some draw backs too. The long half-life can make it difficult to time your pct. I see a lot of NPP now and if you stop running the deca several weeks before your cycle ends that will go a long way in taking care of that issue at least. I don't no if NPP has the same affect, but if you are using it for that purpose, then you don't need to run a high dose anyway. I always run deca at 1/3 the dose that I'm running test at. For joint protection you can most likely use even less.

I'm in my early 40's and joint pain is a problem, especially when I'm lifting heavy in a bulking cycle. I think that is were deca really shines. I only run it in bulking cycles. When I am cutting I use much less weight.

 

[luckypaul]

So how low of a dose is safe? I've heard that too much for too long can lead to DAWS (Dopamine Agonist Withdrawal Syndrome) which from what I've heard is hell.

Search some threads and posts and you will see that the doses used are sky high. Run it at 1/3 the dose of test and you will double the anabolic side without adding to androgenic sides. I feel if you use it this way you are much less likely to run into that problem. At least that has been my experience.

It does reach an effective level 4 weeks out or so, but you can front load with npp the first 3 weeks if you like. I have never been too concerned with this because I usually front load with test prop until test e kicks in, or if I'm bulking I use dbol the first 4 weeks.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

luckypaul, I believe MBB is talking about Pramipexole in that post you just quoted.

However in regards to Deca being androgenic, it certainly does not feel like it is that strong.

 

[MBB]

Search some threads and posts and you will see that the doses used are sky high. Run it at 1/3 the dose of test and you will double the anabolic side without adding to androgenic sides. I feel if you use it this way you are much less likely to run into that problem. At least that has been my experience.

It does reach an effective level 4 weeks out or so, but you can front load with npp the first 3 weeks if you like. I have never been too concerned with this because I usually front load with test prop until test e kicks in, or if I'm bulking I use dbol the first 4 weeks.

So if I'm on just under 195mg test a week, then I should be running about 65mg Deca. Will a dose this low have any real benefit?

 

[MBB]

luckypaul, I believe MBB is talking about Pramipexole in that post you just quoted.

However in regards to Deca being androgenic, it certainly does not feel like it is that strong.

Yes I was speaking about Prami in that particular post.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

I'm not sure 65mg Deca will produce any real benefit, although this is taking a guess. I don't know anyone who has tried that... I would assume 100mg is the minimum for joint relief. Nandrolone isn't very androgenic IME and on paper, so I wouldn't be worried about sides too much.

 

[bigben66]

Yeah I agree, I'm looking at starting my Deca dose for joint relief at around 150mg per week... possibly dropping to 100mg at a later date.

On a side note, I have started taking a product called 'Honegar' this week... It is basically a drink of 2 tbsps Cider Vinegar and 1 tsp Honey in hot water - 1 cup a day.

The reviews for arthritis and joint pain relief are astonishingly good - although they say it takes a while to see the benefits. But I'll try anything!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/3350714/The-acid-test-for-arthritis.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...eat-arthritis-vinegar-cure-passed-mother.html

 

[luckypaul]

So if I'm on just under 195mg test a week, then I should be running about 65mg Deca. Will a dose this low have any real benefit?

Thats what I would do bro. If you run too much deca, being it is highly anabolic and a very low androgen, it may cause the problem you are looking to avoid because the androgenic component is so low. Having test included, It reduces the risk.

 

[luckypaul]

luckypaul, I believe MBB is talking about Pramipexole in that post you just quoted.

However in regards to Deca being androgenic, it certainly does not feel like it is that strong.

I went back a read the post. Deca is highly anabolic but it is probably the weakest androgen available. The reason you may have a problem with ED is because it is such a weak androgen. The anabolic side is the reason I stack it with test, because I can use 1/3 the dose I'm using of test and roughly double the overall anabolic effectiveness of the stack. I have read it is roughly 3x as anabolic as testosterone. It also binds better at the androgen receptor site.

You are right, it doesn't feel androgenic and it isn't. I have used it effectively since my second cycle. Use 1/3 the amount that you will be using of test and you may have no problems. As we all know there may be individual difference in how we react to various AAS though.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

I went back a read the post. Deca is highly anabolic but it is probably the weakest androgen available. The reason you may have a problem with ED is because it is such a weak androgen. The anabolic side is the reason I stack it with test, because I can use 1/3 the dose I'm using of test and roughly double the overall anabolic effectiveness of the stack. I have read it is roughly 3x as anabolic as testosterone. It also binds better at the androgen receptor site.

You are right, it doesn't feel androgenic and it isn't. I have used it effectively since my second cycle. Use 1/3 the amount that you will be using of test and you may have no problems. As we all know there may be individual difference in how we react to various AAS though.

I agree, Nandrolone is not very androgenic and the 5AR metabolite, Dihydronandrolone is even weaker. This is going by my experience. I have blasted test for a short period at 625mg per week and you can definitely feel the androgenic component to it. In all honesty, since adding in the 400mg of Deca looking over the past 7 weeks I have noticed my usual aggression and well-being has tapered down quite a bit, even on .25mg Prami, I certainly don't feel like im "on" with low test/high deca I actually feel better on just the test alone, but the whole purpose of this was to see if deca aided in joint pain and mobility and see how I react to low test/high deca. I can't say I am surprised though at all this, but I think it was because I was anticipating that feel good androgenic kick with the nandrolone. Have been having thoughts about dropping the deca down to 200mg purely for joint related benefits and blasting the test for a bit.

 

[luckypaul]

So if I'm on just under 195mg test a week, then I should be running about 65mg Deca. Will a dose this low have any real benefit?

Yes it will bro. You will have a higher anabolic affect, and I do feel that deca helps with joint issues. I'm not a scientist and by my own admission a bro-scientist. I can not go back and cite every article I have ever read over the last 16 year of my AAS use, but I can tell you what my own experiences have been and those also that my close amigos have had.

 

[luckypaul]

I agree, Nandrolone is not very androgenic and the 5AR metabolite, Dihydronandrolone is even weaker. This is going by my experience. I have blasted test for a short period at 625mg per week and you can definitely feel the androgenic component to it. In all honesty, since adding in the 400mg of Deca looking over the past 7 weeks I have noticed my usual aggression and well-being has tapered down quite a bit, even on .25mg Prami, I certainly don't feel like im "on" with low test/high deca I actually feel better on just the test alone, but the whole purpose of this was to see if deca aided in joint pain and mobility and see how I react to low test/high deca. I can't say I am surprised though at all this, but I think it was because I was anticipating that feel good androgenic kick with the nandrolone. Have been having thoughts about dropping the deca down to 200mg purely for joint related benefits and blasting the test for a bit.

It has been my experience that when running deca aggression is reduced and if you are not careful you may experience bouts of melancholy because of the low androgenic component. With all due respect, not all deca is deca. Don't underestimate a persons greed. For a source ,or someone working for him, it means double the money. Test raw looks very different than deca so no mistake can be made on that end, but most folks will not notice a difference in deca and under-dosed test or if the scammer has any kind of conscious at all they will fully dose it. Again I say this with all due respect. If you have not seen raw deca or raw test you may not be able to tell unless you can see your blood. I would not even be able to know for certain. Lots of greedy people out there bro and since you and me may feel it would be stupid to counterfeit deca or test because raws are so cheep, someone else may not feel that way. That is the reason a lot of guys get underdosed gear. Plain and simple.

 

[bigben66]

I agree, Nandrolone is not very androgenic and the 5AR metabolite, Dihydronandrolone is even weaker. This is going by my experience. I have blasted test for a short period at 625mg per week and you can definitely feel the androgenic component to it. In all honesty, since adding in the 400mg of Deca looking over the past 7 weeks I have noticed my usual aggression and well-being has tapered down quite a bit, even on .25mg Prami, I certainly don't feel like im "on" with low test/high deca I actually feel better on just the test alone, but the whole purpose of this was to see if deca aided in joint pain and mobility and see how I react to low test/high deca. I can't say I am surprised though at all this, but I think it was because I was anticipating that feel good androgenic kick with the nandrolone. Have been having thoughts about dropping the deca down to 200mg purely for joint related benefits and blasting the test for a bit.

Are you on TRT, or will you be running a PCT after this blast?

 

[Megatron28]

I agree, Nandrolone is not very androgenic and the 5AR metabolite, Dihydronandrolone is even weaker. This is going by my experience. I have blasted test for a short period at 625mg per week and you can definitely feel the androgenic component to it. In all honesty, since adding in the 400mg of Deca looking over the past 7 weeks I have noticed my usual aggression and well-being has tapered down quite a bit, even on .25mg Prami, I certainly don't feel like im "on" with low test/high deca I actually feel better on just the test alone, but the whole purpose of this was to see if deca aided in joint pain and mobility and see how I react to low test/high deca. I can't say I am surprised though at all this, but I think it was because I was anticipating that feel good androgenic kick with the nandrolone. Have been having thoughts about dropping the deca down to 200mg purely for joint related benefits and blasting the test for a bit.

Staunched: how long have you been on the deca now?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

On TRT, Big Ben.

Mega, have just started Week 7 now... So far my verdict is, I will definitely either be upping the test or adding a low dose of masteron next time I use deca as don't particularly like the way it almost blunts the well-being feeling and libido effects of the test as have been feeling a lot flatter mentally and that zing I have from being on test feels like it has gone. With the Prami at .25mg ED, libido is back but it feels like there is that something missing. HCT was at 48% 12 weeks ago and am due to donate, easily over 50% after including the deca, vascularity is pushing its way through so I could be prone to anxiety with a high RBC count and will report back how I feel after donating though. Muscle wise, I look fuller and have put on some size however expecting it too really start shining around now onwards, 14 weeks and that's it for me, I've made it halfway so would be silly to back out of it now. Adex dose has been increased to 1mg MWF as nipple sensitivity in the left side has started again indicating elevated e2 which I expected (dropped to 30mg Ralox, bumped it back upto 60mg for the next 6 months then I'll probably go under the knife).

 

[Megatron28]

On TRT, Big Ben.

Mega, have just started Week 7 now... So far my verdict is, I will definitely either be upping the test or adding a low dose of masteron next time I use deca as don't particularly like the way it almost blunts the well-being feeling and libido effects of the test as have been feeling a lot flatter mentally and that zing I have from being on test feels like it has gone. With the Prami at .25mg ED, libido is back but it feels like there is that something missing. HCT was at 48% 12 weeks ago and am due to donate, easily over 50% after including the deca, vascularity is pushing its way through so I could be prone to anxiety with a high RBC count and will report back how I feel after donating though. Muscle wise, I look fuller and have put on some size however expecting it too really start shining around now onwards, 14 weeks and that's it for me, I've made it halfway so would be silly to back out of it now. Adex dose has been increased to 1mg MWF as nipple sensitivity in the left side has started again indicating elevated e2 which I expected (dropped to 30mg Ralox, bumped it back upto 60mg for the next 6 months then I'll probably go under the knife).

At 7 weeks deca should be starting to kick in a bit. Have you gotten new blood work to see where your E2 is at? If you were having ED problems that most likely means your E2 crept up on you.

 

[STAUNCHED427]

Will have bloodwork with me shortly... No doubt e2 has risen and have increased AI dose.

 

[Madhaya]

>> results <<

Very interested to hear where this ended up. I'm an HRT patient that has suffered from a severe "tennis elbow" for about a year now, and yesterday while I was reviewing my therapy with the Doc, in passing he asked if there was anything else I had questions about. For the hell of it, I said, "You have any advice as to how to mitigate 'tennis elbow'"? Discussion began, and after I explained that I am in physical therapy for it employing mps, acupuncture, ultrasound, & massage he added that he would consider adding Deca to my regimen as it would likely offer a "band-aid" of pain relief while hopefully the PT remedies the issue.

I'm only 9 weeks in on T & still wrapping my head around the science so confusing the experiment with another variable is not extremely high on my list, but considering how debilitating the elbow is, I can feel myself jumping at the possibility of feeling like I have a normal arm again. As anyone would be, I am obviously concerned about "deca-dick", and then the hepatoxicity & other risks of even more requisite compounds like the DopamineAgonists referenced here.

Please, I would love to hear about ultimate efficacy in this case. Meaning STAUNCHED's now complete cycle, & if MBB has engaged any protocols premised off this conversation.

 

[Mprtz]

Injectable nandrolone isn't particularly hepatoxic. It does have the reputation of being very suppressive, so if there's any chance you'll reconsider TRT you might want to avoid it because it will probably lessen your chances of recovery.

You'd likely use a lower-than-BB dose of 100mg-200mg, and as long as you have your E2 under control you shouldn't have too much trouble with prolactin. I'd be prepared though.

As far as efficacy, opinions seem to vary widely. I have no personal experience, but would consider it under prescription.

Your doc sounds like a keeper.

 

[ramdizzle]

I usually do 200 mg of deca a week when I run it with test. A friend told me that really any more than that is a waste .