HGH followed by tons of sugar.

[jozifp103]

I guess I'm looking to get some feedback or opinions on my HGH protocol as it pertains to sugar and carbohydrate intake. From my understanding, HGH use decreases your insulin sensitivity. For this reason it's best to keep simple sugars to a minimum around time of injection. But isn't HGH active for several hours? So why is it only 45mins-1hr that you have to wait? It's known that you peak around the 3hr mark. So assuming the HGH is active for well over 3 hours, your insulin sensitivity will be low for the entire duration of HGH's activity no? And most people split the dose, so that pretty much keeps your insulin sensitivity down all day I would imagine.....

Anyways....I've chosen to ignore this information because I like to take in a lot of simple sugars just before, during, and after my workout. Here's my protocol.

Current compounds:
-EP Test E 500mg/week
-EP Deca 250mg/week (joints)
-EP Cialis 10mg/day (pumps/vascularity/BP)
-EP aromasin 10mg/day
-EP T4 100mcg/day (prevent t4 depletion from HGH use)
I call this a cruise...some consider it a cycle. Do not recommend for beginners and/or anyone unwilling to stay on top of your health.


-430am wake up
-500am pin 2.5iu Eurotropin HGH
-515am eat 1 banana and 1 Belvita breakfast bar (25g sugar)(50g net carbs)
-545am begin workout sip 16oz Monster energy drink (56g sugar)
-615am finish energy drink, switch to shake, continue workout. Shake contains (50g protein blend. Whey, Cassein, Milk, eggwhite)(60g dextrose OR 60g maltodextrin)
-Shake is finished by the time I leave the gym.

TOTALS:

-Using dextrose
141g sugar
166g net carbs

-Using maltodextrin
81g sugar
166g net carbs

I've been following this routine consistently for about 2 months now. I really enjoy the pumps and fullness I get from the high carb/sugar intake. I figure timing them around my workout would rationalize it a bit as I would be using up a lot of them.

But would you consider this overkill? I've remained at 11-12%bf during the entire 2 months.

Should I be concerned with combo of high sugars, hgh, and the possibility of developing diabetes like everyone says?

What do y'all think??

 

[blakey]

I guess I'm looking to get some feedback or opinions on my HGH protocol as it pertains to sugar and carbohydrate intake. From my understanding, HGH use decreases your insulin sensitivity. For this reason it's best to keep simple sugars to a minimum around time of injection. But isn't HGH active for several hours? So why is it only 45mins-1hr that you have to wait? It's known that you peak around the 3hr mark. So assuming the HGH is active for well over 3 hours, your insulin sensitivity will be low for the entire duration of HGH's activity no? And most people split the dose, so that pretty much keeps your insulin sensitivity down all day I would imagine.....

Anyways....I've chosen to ignore this information because I like to take in a lot of simple sugars just before, during, and after my workout. Here's my protocol.

Current compounds:
-EP Test E 500mg/week
-EP Deca 250mg/week (joints)
-EP Cialis 10mg/day (pumps/vascularity/BP)
-EP aromasin 10mg/day
-EP T4 100mcg/day (prevent t4 depletion from HGH use)
I call this a cruise...some consider it a cycle. Do not recommend for beginners and/or anyone unwilling to stay on top of your health.


-430am wake up
-500am pin 2.5iu Eurotropin HGH
-515am eat 1 banana and 1 Belvita breakfast bar (25g sugar)(50g net carbs)
-545am begin workout sip 16oz Monster energy drink (56g sugar)
-615am finish energy drink, switch to shake, continue workout. Shake contains (50g protein blend. Whey, Cassein, Milk, eggwhite)(60g dextrose OR 60g maltodextrin)
-Shake is finished by the time I leave the gym.

TOTALS:

-Using dextrose
141g sugar
166g net carbs

-Using maltodextrin
81g sugar
166g net carbs

I've been following this routine consistently for about 2 months now. I really enjoy the pumps and fullness I get from the high carb/sugar intake. I figure timing them around my workout would rationalize it a bit as I would be using up a lot of them.

But would you consider this overkill? I've remained at 11-12%bf during the entire 2 months.

Should I be concerned with combo of high sugars, hgh, and the possibility of developing diabetes like everyone says?

What do y'all think??

I think your safe brother
Considering guys run slin and hgh and demolish a lot more carbs than your having and don't develop diabetes I think you will be right
I myself have run cycles with slin and haven't had and troubles with insulin resistance so just hgh with some carbs I'd say you've got no worries

 

[jozifp103]

I think your safe brother
Considering guys run slin and hgh and demolish a lot more carbs than your having and don't develop diabetes I think you will be right
I myself have run cycles with slin and haven't had and troubles with insulin resistance so just hgh with some carbs I'd say you've got no worries

My understanding is that supplementing with slin in this situation would actually be better because it would counteract the decreased insulin sensitivity and effectively control your blood sugar instead of it being elevated with just HGH.

 

[49ER]

Biggest monsters i know eat bananas waffles juice after pinning slin and GH before they hit the gym

 

[blakey]

My understanding is that supplementing with slin in this situation would actually be better because it would counteract the decreased insulin sensitivity and effectively control your blood sugar instead of it being elevated with just HGH.

That is true but continued used of slin also leads to decreased insulin sensitivity so all I was saying is that if there's guys doing hgh and slin cycles I don't think you will have a problem diabetes wise
As in lowering your insulin residence and becoming a type 2 diabetic

 

[Roush]

my 'limited' understanding is that HGH causes insulin sensitivity at the receptor site and "blunts' insulins ability to act*. Your pancreas then begins to start producing more and more insulin because of blood glucose levels. This over production can lead to 'burning out' the pancreas and leading to type 2 diabetes.

by injecting even small amounts of slin while running HGH, you can take the burden off the pancreas. Even just a small amount 3-5 IUs at a time with your carb meals.

* also makes sense why you don't want high amounts of HGH in the blood stream while consuming large amount of carbs/sugar.. again , hgh will blunt insulins ability to act, and when your consuming carbs is when you'll get an insulin response and thats when you need insulin to act and lower blood sugar.
so its recommended not to inject hgh in a similar time frame as sugar and carb consumption .

 

[blakey]

my 'limited' understanding is that HGH causes insulin sensitivity at the receptor site and "blunts' insulins ability to act*. Your pancreas then begins to start producing more and more insulin because of blood glucose levels. This over production can lead to 'burning out' the pancreas and leading to type 2 diabetes.

by injecting even small amounts of slin while running HGH, you can take the burden off the pancreas. Even just a small amount 3-5 IUs at a time with your carb meals.

* also makes sense why you don't want high amounts of HGH in the blood stream while consuming large amount of carbs/sugar.. again , hgh will blunt insulins ability to act, and when your consuming carbs is when you'll get an insulin response and thats when you need insulin to act and lower blood sugar.
so its recommended not to inject hgh in a similar time frame as sugar and carb consumption .

Ahh well there you go dropping some much needed wisdom as usual

 

[jozifp103]

my 'limited' understanding is that HGH causes insulin sensitivity at the receptor site and "blunts' insulins ability to act*. Your pancreas then begins to start producing more and more insulin because of blood glucose levels. This over production can lead to 'burning out' the pancreas and leading to type 2 diabetes.

by injecting even small amounts of slin while running HGH, you can take the burden off the pancreas. Even just a small amount 3-5 IUs at a time with your carb meals.

* also makes sense why you don't want high amounts of HGH in the blood stream while consuming large amount of carbs/sugar.. again , hgh will blunt insulins ability to act, and when your consuming carbs is when you'll get an insulin response and thats when you need insulin to act and lower blood sugar.
so its recommended not to inject hgh in a similar time frame as sugar and carb consumption .

Yes that is my understanding as well. But, tiring out the pancreas, and inhibiting its ability to produce insulin would be the definition of type 1 diabetes no? Type one is the body's inability to produce insulin. Type 2 would be a permanent desensitization of the receptors. It's my understanding that typically you can't induce type 1, you're born with it, or develop it at a young age. Typically people that develop diabetes later in life are type 2. So perhaps you are correct about the decreased sensitivity causing the pancreas to product more insulin, but perhaps the constant stimulation of the receptor sites is what causes them to permanently desensitize causing type 2 diabetes.

my head hurts lol

 

[Roush]

tiring out the pancreas, and inhibiting its ability to produce insulin would be the definition of type 1 diabetes no?

type 1 diabetes is a genetic auto immune system disease , the body's immune system destroys the beta cells of the pancreas and thus it cannot produce any insulin.

type 2 diabetes is developed over time where you body does not use insulin effectively and your pancreas produces more and more insulin to try and make up for it, and over time it simply cannot keep up and thus exogenous insulin is needed.

being type 1 diabetes is actually a genetic Auto Immune Disease (your immune system destroys the insulin cells of the pancreas) , I would not consider any type of HGH use leading to type 1 diabetes .

if the pancreas is 'burn out' by simply not being able to keep up with the bodies need for more and more insulin (due to issues at the receptor site and insulin in-sensitivity) ,, this would still be considered type 2 diabetes. again , because its not an auto immune system disease where the immune system destroys the insulin producing cells of the pancreas.

thats just my limited understanding

lots more research needs to be done in regards to HGH , Insulin sensitivity , and its relation to blood sugar etc..

 

[jozifp103]

type 1 diabetes is a genetic auto immune system disease , the body's immune system destroys the beta cells of the pancreas and thus it cannot produce any insulin.

type 2 diabetes is developed over time where you body does not use insulin effectively and your pancreas produces more and more insulin to try and make up for it, and over time it simply cannot keep up and thus exogenous insulin is needed.

being type 1 diabetes is actually a genetic Auto Immune Disease (your immune system destroys the insulin cells of the pancreas) , I would not consider any type of HGH use leading to type 1 diabetes .

if the pancreas is 'burn out' by simply not being able to keep up with the bodies need for more and more insulin (due to issues at the receptor site and insulin in-sensitivity) ,, this would still be considered type 2 diabetes. again , because its not an auto immune system disease where the immune system destroys the insulin producing cells of the pancreas.

thats just my limited understanding

lots more research needs to be done in regards to HGH , Insulin sensitivity , and its relation to blood sugar etc..

Ahh ok. So I suppose that explains why metformin can be useful in a lot of cases to reduce the amount of glucose produced in the liver and help sensitize insulin receptors to prevent those with type 2 from burning out their pancreas. Or at least slow the process. I actually have a ton of Metformin that I didn't really want to use after reading up on it. Could be useful in this situation though. Also grabbed a blood glucose meter, going to do some experiments.

 

[Roush]

Ahh ok. So I suppose that explains why metformin can be useful in a lot of cases to reduce the amount of glucose produced in the liver and help sensitize insulin receptors to prevent those with type 2 from burning out their pancreas. Or at least slow the process. I actually have a ton of Metformin that I didn't really want to use after reading up on it. Could be useful in this situation though. Also grabbed a blood glucose meter, going to do some experiments.

excellent ,, keep us updated. a lot more real world research is needed on this IMO.


note: Metformin can drastically reduce the amount of IGF-1 made in the liver . this is probably just the opposite of the reason your taking HGH . HGH is only anabolic in an indirect manner , i.e., by its increasing IGF-1 .
take away or limit IGF-1 and hgh has no anabolic properties (just fat loss like hgh frag) . Really limiting IGF-1 is not what a body builder would want.

^^ so just be aware of that before deciding to take it

the way they found out that Metformin significantly reduces IGF-1 is that people who had cancer, but were taking Metformin, had a drastic slowing down of the growth of the cancer. they found out that the decrease in IGF-1 slowed the cancer down being IGF-1 is anabolic for cancer cells as well as muscle and all other cells.

 

[jozifp103]

excellent ,, keep us updated. a lot more real world research is needed on this IMO.


note: Metformin can drastically reduce the amount of IGF-1 made in the liver . this is probably just the opposite of the reason your taking HGH . HGH is only anabolic in an indirect manner , i.e., by its increasing IGF-1 .
take away or limit IGF-1 and hgh has no anabolic properties (just fat loss like hgh frag) . Really limiting IGF-1 is not what a body builder would want.

^^ so just be aware of that before deciding to take it

the way they found out that Metformin significantly reduces IGF-1 is that people who had cancer, but were taking Metformin, had a drastic slowing down of the growth of the cancer. they found out that the decrease in IGF-1 slowed the cancer down being IGF-1 is anabolic for cancer cells as well as muscle and all other cells.

I agree much more research needs to be done on this. I'm getting frustrated not being able to find any real studies on this. It seems all they know is that HGH injections temporarily raise blood sugar. I've seen hypotheses saying it could be due to the increased fat oxidation or (gluconeogenesis) releasing sugars into the blood stream. I haven't seen anything that indisputably proves that HGH reduces insulin sensitivity. Perhaps its out there and I just suck at using google lol.

And I'm still holding off on the metformin. I've read that as well about the igf-1 reduction. Perhaps a small insulin regimen may help, but I have to do more research on that before i even consider it.

 

[Roush]

And I'm still holding off on the metformin. I've read that as well about the igf-1 reduction. Perhaps a small insulin regimen may help

small regimen of like 2-4 Iu of insulin while your running the HGH could be a good benefit , you'll definitely amplify and increase your IGF-1 (compared to just running hgh alone) .
add that to that fact that your not on a carb restricted diet (a problem with running slin) and are fine taking in carbs. keep the pancreas from working over time (if you have any resistance issues) and get the anabolic effect of the hgh and slin together.


I'll be doing more research myself , but next time I run HGH I'll probably be adding a low dose insulin regimen myself , prob a medium acting humalin-r spread though out the day in a couple of small injections , and will also be spreading my HGH dosage throughout the day as well this time (instead of all 6 iu in the morning).
Along with GHRP's to 'amplify' the amount of GH in my blood stream , , basically a 'compounded' effect , where you get your natural GH to pulse with the peptides , then you inject exogenous GH on top of that to amplify levels (and thus can get by running less HGH then with a single one time morning dose)
add that with the slin and IGF-1 should increase big time.

 

[jozifp103]

Ok....I got a glucose meter and tried it out. This first test was just to figure out how to use it but I'll post the results anyway....

4:50 am - pinned 5iu Eurotropin into bicep (it's usually 2iu but missed my afternoon injection yesterday)
5:15 am - Ate 1 banana and 1 belvita breakfast bar (roughly 25g sugar 50g net carbs)
5:45 am - enter gym....sip on energy drink (56g sugar)
6:30 am - finish energy drink, sip on protein/maltodextrin shake, continue to workout. (50g protein, 60g net carbs. No simple sugars)

So for simplicity's sake we'll say I took in 81g sugar and 166 net carbs within 2 hours after injecting 5iu HGH.

7:30 am - blood glucose test

Result - 114
Range (70-245)

Will do more, better timed tests to get some real answers

 

[Milton]

Biggest monsters i know eat bananas waffles juice after pinning slin and GH before they hit the gym

My concern here is also the duration of this cruise cycle

 

[Milton]

Biggest monsters i know eat bananas waffles juice after pinning slin and GH before they hit the gym

you mean theres guys bigger than you?

 

[jozifp103]

Ok a month later I finally got around to doing a before/after glucose test....

I chose to do both tests fasted to remove all variables to see if HGH really does increase blood sugar.

Protocol:

10am - woke up (fasted 12 hours) and pinned 5iu Eurotropin HGH. (Pinned the whole 5iu at once instead of splitting because if there was an effect on blood sugar, I wanted to get strong results.)
10:30 am - first glucose test
10:30 am-12:57 pm - continue to fast
12:57 pm - second glucose test (2.5 hours after GH administration)

Results below:

10:30 am

12:57 pm

So here's my take based on what I've read/learned....

After 12 hours of fasting my blood sugar should have leveled off to it's constant fasting level. From my understanding your blood sugar will only drop so low in the absence of food and has a base level that is maintained by glucose production in the liver. So based on this, my blood glucose was at it's lowest, most constant level. It would not have dropped nor risen in the next few hours in the absence of food. Therefore any increase or decrease in blood glucose during this time would have to be caused by the HGH (theoretically).

So, because my BG only dropped slightly within the 2.5 hours of GH administration....my guess is that the increase in BG (insulin resistance) from HGH is a constant effect of HGH and not correlated to the timing of the shots. So BG will always be slightly elevated during HGH use, not just around the time of administration. Another reason I believe this is because a reading of >100 after 12 hours of fasting seems a bit high leading me to believe there is some insulin resistance occurring.

 

[Roush]

question i would have is when your GH serum levels are elevated, and you consume a large amount of carbs, do you go slightly hyper-glycemic ?


I was on a GH and GHRP regimen awhile back and ended up eating a super high sugar meal a short time after injections having elevated GH serum and bout nearly died (least it felt that way) . my daughters Bday cake (multiple slices) and ice cream to boot , i was completely unable to process that much sugar on the GH (it was a miserable experience, worst then going hypo).

just curious if you experience going hyper glycemic at all with high carb meals

 

[jozifp103]

question i would have is when your GH serum levels are elevated, and you consume a large amount of carbs, do you go slightly hyper-glycemic ?


I was on a GH and GHRP regimen awhile back and ended up eating a super high sugar meal a short time after injections having elevated GH serum and bout nearly died (least it felt that way) . my daughters Bday cake (multiple slices) and ice cream to boot , i was completely unable to process that much sugar on the GH (it was a miserable experience, worst then going hypo).

just curious if you experience going hyper glycemic at all with high carb meals

Here's a copy/paste of my pre/intra workout carb intake aand my GH administration from above.

-430am wake up
-500am pin 2.5iu Eurotropin HGH
-515am eat 1 banana and 1 Belvita breakfast bar (25g sugar)(50g net carbs)
-545am begin workout sip 16oz Monster energy drink (56g sugar)
-615am finish energy drink, switch to shake, continue workout. Shake contains (50g protein blend. Whey, Cassein, Milk, eggwhite)(60g dextrose OR 60g maltodextrin)
-Shake is finished by the time I leave the gym.

81g sugar
166g net carbs

Not once have I felt hyperglycemic, and the highest BG reading I've gotten so far was 114 (range 70-245) at 7:30 am about an hour after consuming my usual pre/intra workout carbs/sugars and about 2 hours after pinning 5iu of Eurotropin. I typically only pin 2.5iu in the am but I pinned all 5iu at once because I wanted to see a definite variance. But the variance in results were minimal and not cause for concern. Like I said, it seems the insulin resistance and elevated BG are a contant effect and don't just happen during the few hours that GH levels are elevated.

But I'm gonna keep trying different experiments with different timing/carbs/GH doses, etc.

 

[blakey]

Here's a copy/paste of my pre/intra workout carb intake aand my GH administration from above.

-430am wake up
-500am pin 2.5iu Eurotropin HGH
-515am eat 1 banana and 1 Belvita breakfast bar (25g sugar)(50g net carbs)
-545am begin workout sip 16oz Monster energy drink (56g sugar)
-615am finish energy drink, switch to shake, continue workout. Shake contains (50g protein blend. Whey, Cassein, Milk, eggwhite)(60g dextrose OR 60g maltodextrin)
-Shake is finished by the time I leave the gym.

81g sugar
166g net carbs

Not once have I felt hyperglycemic, and the highest BG reading I've gotten so far was 114 (range 70-245) at 7:30 am about an hour after consuming my usual pre/intra workout carbs/sugars and about 2 hours after pinning 5iu of Eurotropin. I typically only pin 2.5iu in the am but I pinned all 5iu at once because I wanted to see a definite variance. But the variance in results were minimal and not cause for concern. Like I said, it seems the insulin resistance and elevated BG are a contant effect and don't just happen during the few hours that GH levels are elevated.

But I'm gonna keep trying different experiments with different timing/carbs/GH doses, etc.

Ahhh a monster then a shake and then a session how dose it all go sitting in your stomach while lifting lol I'd be spewing all over the shop