Humalin vs Humalog: An Intelligent Debate

Dang Roadhouse posted about otc in canada while I was typing the other one.

The peak time of either insulin can be managed.

If you can inject before finishing your work out and keep carbs very near that helps. BE VERY VERY CAREFUL here though, this is ONLY for people comfortable with insulin use.

Also if you inject IM it helps both get into the blood stream quicker (hum-r is 15-30 min instead of 30-60) I'm not sure how much faster log would be, haven't tried it yet.
 
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Also despite my preference for Hum-r, I would suggest humalog for you gilly. My two reasons
First like they said you don't want to be asleep and go hypo.
Second, regarding fat, eating slow digesting carbs at night will help, but it is MUCH easier to over shoot and get extra cals which means extra fat. Using slin during the day you can play with the levels, you can under shoot and keep track of how many carbs you need to get out of hypo and thus dial in how many you need. This is not an option while alseep because you may die. The other option is to over shoot and slowly move back until you get hypo. Also not an option because you die :(. Log is the clear winner at night.
 
elijah_123 said:
The bouncer, Humalog is OTC in canada.

Also slin doesn't "push fat" into cells.


Insulin and Lipid Metabolism
The metabolic pathways for utilization of fats and carbohydrates are deeply and intricately intertwined. Considering insulin's profound effects on carbohydrate metabolism, it stands to reason that insulin also has important effects on lipid metabolism. Notable effects of insulin on lipid metabolism include the following:
* Insulin promotes synthesis of fatty acids in the liver. As discussed above, insulin is stimulatory to synthesis of glycogen in the liver. However, as glycogen accumulates to high levels (roughly 5% of liver mass), further synthesis is strongly suppressed.
When the liver is saturated with glycogen, any additional glucose taken up by hepatocytes is shunted into pathways leading to synthesis of fatty acids, which are exported from the liver as lipoproteins. The lipoproteins are ripped apart in the circulation, providing free fatty acids for use in other tissues, including adipocytes, which use them to synthesize triglyceride.
* Insulin inhibits breakdown of fat in adipose tissue by inhibiting the intracellular lipase that hydrolyzes triglycerides to release fatty acids.
Insulin facilitates entry of glucose into adipocytes, and within those cells, glucose can be used to synthesize glycerol. This glycerol, along with the fatty acids delivered from the liver, are used to synthesize triglyceride within the adipocyte. By these mechanisms, insulin is involved in further accumulation of triglyceride in fat cells.

Thus when the liver is full it begins storing fat. BUt before it does that the liver must be full and the muscles must be saturated. So if you measure your calorie intake properly, so as to not exceed your body's need at the moment fat will not make you fatter.

Eating fat is not a good choice while taking slin for two reasons.
1) It doesn't redily convert to glucose, so it isn't going to do anything about becoming hypo or help repair muscles.
2) Because of this fat is essentially an empty calorie if we want to get the most out of slin while it active.

Eating a gram of fat while slin is active does NOT mean you gain a gram of fat!! If that was the case every time you ate a fat normally it would turn directly to fat (because all non type1 diabetics have insulin naturally).

Even if it some how magically turned into fat, do the math for the "danger of getting fat"

It takes roughly 3500 calories to gain a pound of fat. That is 388.888888 grams of fat (using one gram of fat=9 calories) So that means if you use slin for 10 weeks, 4 times a week and it is active for 4 hours that gives us 160 hours during which to eat clean. Then lets say the first post work out meal is a protein/carb shake no fat then an normal meal in an hour with 10 grams of fat. Then another meal with 10 grams of fat. During that 10 week cycle we will have 800 grams of fat while the insulin is magically forcing fat into fat cells (((10+10)*4)*10) Which means 2.07 lb of fat gain (800 gr/388 gr) in 10 weeks. I gaurantee you if you train hard you will easily put on 20-40 lb of muscle in that time also. Not a bad trade off. Even that 2.07 lb is if you use the "slin automagically stores fat" approach, which I feel I have shown is false.
good read bro, but from experaince i put on fat at a much faster rate if i consume fat within 4 hours after my shot.
 
How do your calories match up with your needs at the moment? Slin definately will make you fat if your not dialed in on calories.

A good formula is the carbs=weight in kg*4 and pro=weight in kg*2 for post work out. Subtract the calories that makes from your needs for the day, then divide that number by 12 (the calories you need every 2 hours) and eat at the 1 hour mark. You should be good to go for two hours, or keep some carbs handy just in case.
 
I thought it was well established that eating fat while exogenous insulin is active in the body is a good way to get fat.:confused:

My experience has been the same as bouncer's, although I have been pretty diligent about minimizing fat intake while insulin is active.

I prefer humalog mostly because I prefer to have a shorter window of time in which I need to be very vigilant about preventing hypoglycemina and avoiding fat. A shorter time period works better with my lifestyle for now, since I'm only training on weekends and only using insulin post workout. However, if I were bulking all out and had more time to devote to bodybuilding, meal prep, etc., I might choose humalin R or a mixture instead.

According to the manufacturer of Humalog, its onset and peak is quite a bit more slow than the time periods Roadhouse posted. I had the graphs bookmarked but have lost them.
 
A good thing to remember is that food which contain fat naturally have more calories than most food that dont...so if elijah's theory is indeed true that may explain why people think that eating fat makes them fat.

Great posts so far. I think I may have to try Humalin...mainly because I dont care about a pound here and there of fat and I work out in the early afternoon.
 
I always thought slin was a transport, carrying protein and carbs to the muscles. if you eat fat, it carrys fat to fat cells. is this theory wrong?
 
staybig said:
which one would be better to cycle test and tren with humalog or humilin r????
your missing the point bro. neither one is better, one just last longer so you need to be more precise. if you have never used slin i would reccomend humalog. but read up before you do.
 
THE BOUNCER said:
I always thought slin was a transport, carrying protein and carbs to the muscles. if you eat fat, it carrys fat to fat cells. is this theory wrong?

I believe that it has always been described as a "transport" because the actual science behind it can get kind of difficult to explain.

From what I have read the theory that elijah posted seems to make more sense. But, Im not a chemist so I may be wrong.

BTW, staybig, why bump a post 2 minutes after you ask the question?
 
i am on humalog right now i like the short duration becasue i work out about 5-6 pm and go to bed at about 10-11 pm so can i squezze the humilin r in that time frame??
 
staybig said:
i am on humalog right now i like the short duration becasue i work out about 5-6 pm and go to bed at about 10-11 pm so can i squezze the humilin r in that time frame??
but why do you want to use humulin-R? stick with the humalog bro, you are fine with that.
 
The Almighty said:
I believe that it has always been described as a "transport" because the actual science behind it can get kind of difficult to explain.

From what I have read the theory that elijah posted seems to make more sense. But, Im not a chemist so I may be wrong.

ya, i guess it does get difficult to explain. i would like to hear more on this if anyone has any studies. my main question is, will slin transport fat to fat cells or no?
 
I think the common mistake people make, and then say "slin makes you fat" is gorge on carbs. A calorie is a calorie, overeating reguraly on carbs will make you fat, but potentially with insulin, it will make you fatter. Even if you stay away from fats for 10 hours.

One reason why fat should be avoided while using either form, is fat slows down the absorbtion of food, and you may miss some of the protein and carb uptake because of a moderatley fatty meal.
 
I am just starting to try insulin now (humalog), but I have not heard any great reasons as why one may be more effective than the other. I use humalog because I plan I only using post workout, which for me is at night, and I do not won't to have to think about BGL's for more than an hour. For this reason I believe that Humalog is a safer choice (not better or worse). My brother has been type one for over 20 years and in that time I have seen him have many low BGL's, but the only ones that were life threatening are the ones that come on during sleep.(obviously you can't feel it coming on)
 
In my opinion:

For bulking.........slow insulin like Humulin-n (or r 2x's daily)
For post workout recovery, pre-contest, or with GH..........Humalog.

You got to know your reason for using insulin before the question can be answered in a meaningful way. I've used insulin in all these ways, so this is from personal experience.
 
Bump.. I want to keep this thread going. It will be a good refrence thread for anyone with insulin questions.
 
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