Provigil (modafinil) - Any users please post up!

[BigRonWannabee]

Took my first dose as well fett. I took 200mg, a buddy took 300. My lightest study partner (guy who weight 150 soaking wet) took 200mg and said he felt alert all day, couldnt nap when he tried. I felt nothing this time. My buddy felt nothing. We all had head rushes about 1 hour after taking it, it was strange but mild. I did study today without much "stimulant" feeling at all. Time will tell, ill take a few more days of it to really gauge effects.

Some things Ive read and learned:
1) its totally insoluble in water. Just put it in caps or on your tongue and swallow.
2) its onset is slow, and effect arent to be expected for hours after dosing.
3) 200mg didnt do jack for me, I dont know if its bodyweight dependant (doubt it) but my little buddy felt something while I didnt. Food for thought.

 

[fett54]

Dougoe,

Yea, I have hear similar stuff...I didnt have the peg handy thus the 151 suspension.

ummm, well...I am gonna stick to 160mg for the week at a bw of 217+/- and then try the 240mg...

I Hope to god this stuff is my savior...I fucking need it for finals and classes in general. I have read that some people dont respond to it very well or not at all. I am thinking maybe the body could also take some time to get used to it in a manner of speaking. Like when I smoked pot in HS...my first few times I didnt get anything...then one day BAM! So we'll see

Lets keep this thread alive and hopefully people will chime in on their experiences as well...this is quite the interesting compound if it works!

J

 

[fett54]

day 2 still working well!

even tried to take a mid-day nap after a HUGE sushi lunch to no avail...

this may be it...too bad I am not super motivated for school

 

[fett54]

tried again today for 3rd time overall...

still working good...the real test will be over finals!

 

[The Alchemist]

Be careful with Provigil

Provigil is simply not a very effective med and I believe the potential sides outwiegh the benefits for anyone running AS, particularly toxic orals.

Unless you are very sensitive to stimulants and don't use caffeine, it will take about 400 mg to get a significant alerting effect, and it may take up to 800 mg (with the exception of the first few times, where 200 mg may work somewhat).

The problem is that modafinil is hard on the liver (and kidneys) at these doses, and I would discourage it being used together with other meds that stress these organs. There are also some reports of joint problems that may be associated with use of this med. A low dose (5-10 mg) of adderall or dexadrine is much more effective for alterness, concentration, and focus (e.g., late night studying), and much easier on the body!

 

[GymLift]

Unless you are very sensitive to stimulants and don't use caffeine, it will take about 400 mg to get a significant alerting effect, and it may take up to 800 mg (with the exception of the first few times, where 200 mg may work somewhat).

Do you know this from personal experience? Clinical experience?

I hadn't realized that Modafinil is hepatoxic. Good info.

Seeing as I already take much higher dosages of Adderall than 5mg/day, it doesn't sound like this med is going to be very effective for me. But I've got 10g, so I'll give it a try at the 200mg/day dose.

btw: Welcome to the board.

 

[The Alchemist]

More of Provigil

Thanks for the welcome bro! New to this board, but many years of exerience related to the topics on this forum (and others).

I have both clinical experience and personal use. After this med became available, I was excited about its potential use. Unfortunately, few people seemed to get a lasting effect, particularly under 400 mg QD. In my opnion, it is centainly no substitute for adderall. It does appear to be dopinergic, as you noted. I would avoid the stuff if other stimulants were available and effective for you. Wellbutrin (@ 300 mg QD) is less toxic and more effective for ADHD than provig; Wellburin will also help maintain sexual function during AS use.

BTW, what dose of adderall do you take? Is it XR?

 

[GymLift]

Thanks for the welcome bro! New to this board, but many years of exerience related to the topics on this forum (and others).

If I'm not mistaken, your reputation proceeds you.

I have both clinical experience and personal use. After this med became available, I was excited about its potential use. Unfortunately, few people seemed to get a lasting effect, particularly under 400 mg QD. In my opnion, it is centainly no substitute for adderall. It does appear to be dopinergic, as you noted. I would avoid the stuff if other stimulants were available and effective for you. Wellbutrin (@ 300 mg QD) is less toxic and more effective for ADHD than provig; Wellburin will also help maintain sexual function during AS use.

Does it make any sense to use both Adderall and Wellbutrin? I mean, I'm ADHD, and there is the suspected link with dopamine. Regardless, Adderall is certainly dopaminergic of course .. and it does help. Really wish I had Adderall or perhaps even just the then more popular drug at the time, Ritalin, when I was growing up.

BTW, what dose of adderall do you take? Is it XR?

I'm prescribed 20mg tid (60mg qd), but I haven't actually taken that dosage in a long time. I typically break the 20mg tablet in half and take it as needed; sometimes less than the four hours apart. Years ago when I was fairly new to Adderall, I found frequent 10mg dosages to work very well (this wasn't recommended, but I determined that on my own). The problem is that it is very hard to remember to take it that often.

When I do take dosages approaching 60m qd, I tend to get tics. Like in my lower back, and then the tic itself caused soreness.

While I haven't actually taken it, I'm not a fan of the Adderall XR. My understanding it that it uses the Microtrol® delivery system, which splits the medication up into two beads. One disolves immediately, I think, and the other disolves four hours later. I would rather have the control to decide for myself, four hours later (or perhaps 3 or 5 or whatever), if I want another dose of Adderall and if so, how much. I also consider the name 'Adderall XR' to be misleading. It is more like Adderall with delayed release.

And then there is the fact that Adderall XR is under patent and costs three times as much for me as per my copay.

I do not believe Adderall should be schedule II medication. There is obviously risk of abuse, so keep it scheduled, but schedule III+ may be more appropriate. I simply don't consider it to be addictive. There are a lot of prescriptions for the medication, and I have never seen a case of physicial or even mental addiction. The to place a long-term med under schedule II is very burdensome.

 

[The Alchemist]

If I'm not mistaken, your reputation proceeds you.

Does it make any sense to use both Adderall and Wellbutrin? I mean, I'm ADHD, and there is the suspected link with dopamine. Regardless, Adderall is certainly dopaminergic of course .. and it does help. Really wish I had Adderall or perhaps even just the then more popular drug at the time, Ritalin, when I was growing up.

Yes - you can take both Adderall and Wellbutrin. Wellbutrin XL (upto 450 mg) is long acting and may allow you to reduce dose of adderall and help you remember to take it when you need it. You just need to monitor your cardio function (HR and BP) while titraiting doses. Ritalin seems to be less effective for most people - about 30% of people do better on Ritalin vs. Adderall, and there is some evidence that a QEEG brain map can indicate which is better for an individual.

I'm prescribed 20mg tid (60mg qd), but I haven't actually taken that dosage in a long time. I typically break the 20mg tablet in half and take it as needed; sometimes less than the four hours apart. Years ago when I was fairly new to Adderall, I found frequent 10mg dosages to work very well (this wasn't recommended, but I determined that on my own). The problem is that it is very hard to remember to take it that often.

In the case of regular (short-acting) adderall, there have been signficant problems with the generic versions, including variabiity in dose and response (UG labs are not the only ones with this problem), so the name brand is much preferred to generic in this case.

When I do take dosages approaching 60m qd, I tend to get tics. Like in my lower back, and then the tic itself caused soreness.

While I haven't actually taken it, I'm not a fan of the Adderall XR. My understanding it that it uses the Microtrol® delivery system, which splits the medication up into two beads. One disolves immediately, I think, and the other disolves four hours later. I would rather have the control to decide for myself, four hours later (or perhaps 3 or 5 or whatever), if I want another dose of Adderall and if so, how much. I also consider the name 'Adderall XR' to be misleading. It is more like Adderall with delayed release.

I hear your concerns about the XR version, but even so it is often more effective than regular adderall, requires lower dose, and XR can be used in combo with short acting (as a base). The XR is still relatively short acting (lasts 6 hours max for most people), so you could take 10mg (or 20 mg) of XR each morning, followed by 10 mg regular every 4-6 hours after prn.


We have the same issues with controlled meds here - it sucks

All the best Bro!

 

[GymLift]

Good information. Thank You. In particular, what you are saying about the generic versions is interesting. I actually have name brand and also two different generic versions of Adderall right now. Maybe I'll somehow do a blind test to compare them (very unscientific). I have noticed that one of the generic manufacturers seems to add sacchairin (like the name brand) while another does not.

Maybe I'll give Adderall XR a try, although right now I'm so close to having all of my medications available in generic. Only remaining name brand prescription is Flovent and there is a lot of mixed information about when that goes off patent. I'm just not a fan of paying $30/month for name brand meds.

 

[fett54]

Well...I am happy with my Provigil so far regardless of all this...I would LOVE to try Wellburin also...but we'll see

So far a shot of provigil when I want a full day is working great and with ANY drug it is specific to the person using it, etc...so many factors in pharmokinetics, etc.

BUT for the record I am only using 160-200mg when I do it...far from 400mg. I am NOT super alert, but the urge to nap is killed and thats what I need! I still get tired at night, etc...but no midday naps is gold to me.

Also...why are many pro athletes using this nowadays? better training?

J

 

[GymLift]

Well...I am happy with my Provigil so far regardless of all this...I would LOVE to try Wellburin also...but we'll see

So far a shot of provigil when I want a full day is working great and with ANY drug it is specific to the person using it, etc...so many factors in pharmokinetics, etc.

BUT for the record I am only using 160-200mg when I do it...far from 400mg. I am NOT super alert, but the urge to nap is killed and thats what I need! I still get tired at night, etc...but no midday naps is gold to me.

Much of this discussion has been for the use of Provigil for uses other than wakefullness; that is, for indications that are not currently FDA approved.

I'm under the impression that earlier clinical studies showed Provigil to be of little benefit to those with ADHD, but more recent study data says otherwise. The truth is probably somewhere between the two.

Also...why are many pro athletes using this nowadays? better training?

I didn't know that many pro athletes were using Modafinil. This thread is the first discussion I have seen on the subject, although I would imagine others exists on other boards.

 

[fett54]

yea it seems alot of T&F athletes and olympians were getting busted for this along with AAS, etc...I know from what I have taken I am not any more motivated to train, but then again I am not too tired to do so either at 9/10 pm...so maybe there's the thing?

I was wondering why really...

Any insights here guys?

 

[GymLift]

Didn't know that.

 

[PARKER27]

I've taken wellbutrin xl for a year now,It was prescribed for ADHD which I've always had a problem with...it also helped with mood swings.I origanally wanted adderall but he said WB was much safer,I wouldn't mind trying adderall because everybody that's ever talked about it has loved it! the only thing I'm afraid of is losing weight on it,I'm a hardgainer and I'd hate to lose the gains I've worked for just become a little more productive.I'm still really interested in adderall though,if you would mranak & alchemist...let me know how you felt before and after adderall,productivity,energy levels,focus,etc. THANKS

 

[GymLift]

Adderall is the most important medication I've ever taken.

When I first started taking it (along with a high dose of an SSRI), my fatigue disappeared and my anxiety went through the roof. The anxiety was hard, but it turned me into a super productive person.

Then the extreme effects disappeared...rather quickly. I eventually discontinued the SSRI (after which I became a zombie for about two weeks) and I probably discontinued the Adderall as well. Then I started back on the Adderall. It isn't anything near what it once was for me, but it is still a very effective medication for my ADHD. I only wish I had used it earlier in life (my mother wasn't a fan of me taking medicine).

I have never been able to find a definitive answer, but I believe the weight loss that many see from Adderall is due to appetite changes. Assuming I am correct, then Adderall should not damage your gains provided that you eat properly.

I get frustrated with those out there who believe they can hurt legitimate ADHD with changes to diet, removing preservatives from the diet, etc. Adderall is the ONLY medication that _I_ have ever taken that has been effective for my ADHD.

I did try Welbutrin for a while a few years back and didn't notice a difference, but maybe I'll give it another try. Damn Welbutrin XL isn't yet available in generic, however. I have lots of Welbutrin SR at home. And lots of SSRIs that I'll probably never use.

 

[PARKER27]

Adderall is the most important medication I've ever taken.

When I first started taking it (along with a high dose of an SSRI), my fatigue disappeared and my anxiety went through the roof. The anxiety was hard, but it turned me into a super productive person.

Then the extreme effects disappeared...rather quickly. I eventually discontinued the SSRI (after which I became a zombie for about two weeks) and I probably discontinued the Adderall as well. Then I started back on the Adderall. It isn't anything near what it once was for me, but it is still a very effective medication for my ADHD. I only wish I had used it earlier in life (my mother wasn't a fan of me taking medicine).

I have never been able to find a definitive answer, but I believe the weight loss that many see from Adderall is due to appetite changes. Assuming I am correct, then Adderall should not damage your gains provided that you eat properly.

I get frustrated with those out there who believe they can hurt legitimate ADHD with changes to diet, removing preservatives from the diet, etc. Adderall is the ONLY medication that _I_ have ever taken that has been effective for my ADHD.

I did try Welbutrin for a while a few years back and didn't notice a difference, but maybe I'll give it another try. Damn Welbutrin XL isn't yet available in generic, however. I have lots of Welbutrin SR at home. And lots of SSRIs that I'll probably never use.

THANK YOU!

 

[The Alchemist]

yea it seems alot of T&F athletes and olympians were getting busted for this along with AAS, etc...I know from what I have taken I am not any more motivated to train, but then again I am not too tired to do so either at 9/10 pm...so maybe there's the thing?

I was wondering why really...

Any insights here guys?

Provigil can help some with fatigue. Also, while not very effective as an everyday medication for narcolepsy, ADD/ADHD, or to augment antidepressants, 200 mg of Provigil in the AM can be very helpful for adjusting to new time zones for those who travel (similar to its FDA approval for sleepiness with shift work). This is a primary reason it is being used by some professional athletes.

As a short-term stimulant, I get more of a boost from 400 mg of caffeine vs. 200 mg of Provigil. Anyone accustomed to Adderall will find Provigil virtually useless. In contrast, everyone loves Adderall when they first start it! I've never been so productive and focused as my first 2 months on it.

As noted by mranak, however, tolerance builds fast, and it is never as effective after this, even with a long break (it helps, but you never return to baseline). People with true ADD/ADHD do not seem to develop tolerance to the same degree. In some people it can cause irritability and reduce impulse control, which can be a major problem if taking losts of test.

Incidently, all amphetamines, inclusing Adderall (which is a mixture of amphetamine salts), are catabolic to all tissue, including fat, bone, and muscle, and will significantly deplete glycogen and h2o, even at moderate doses (i.e., generally over 20 mg qd), regardless of diet and nutrient intake. Of course Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) will help reduce muscle wasting, but Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) may be less effective when taken with a high dose of daily Adderall (40+ mg qd). A small amount (say 5 mg TID) can help with appetite control, but I believe higher doses can be counter productive. I've seen people lose muscle and gain fat while dieting with Adderall - they lost weight, but ended with a less favorable body comp after.

Regular Wellbutrin should be taken in divided doses TID. It appears to have more side effects than XL, but is still an excellent medication for depression and ADD. For ADD, it is best at 150 mg TID (or 450 mg qd XL); for depression 300-450 mg qd (again, taken in divided doses TID if not XL).

 

[GymLift]

As noted by mranak, however, tolerance builds fast, and it is never as effective after this, even with a long break (it helps, but you never return to baseline). People with true ADD/ADHD do not seem to develop tolerance to the same degree.

Good information. And I should clarify that, despite the fac that I don't get the same effect now that I initially got, Adderall is still extremely effective for me. For lack of a better explaination, it brings calm to my thoughts.

Incidently, all amphetamines, inclusing Adderall (which is a mixture of amphetamine salts), are catabolic to all tissue, including fat, bone, and muscle, and will significantly deplete glycogen and h2o, even at moderate doses (i.e., generally over 20 mg qd), regardless of diet and nutrient intake.

Well, I should have known better than to make that claim. For years, I tried to find out what mechanisms from Adderall gave rise to weight loss. The reduced appeciate was obvious and I never found information of other effects. But that was years ago. Just recently, I was told by a MD that NOREPINEPHRINE increases the production of CORTICOTROPIN RELEASEING HORMONE (CRH) from the hypothalamus. doh! I forgot.

Regular Wellbutrin should be taken in divided doses TID. It appears to have more side effects than XL, but is still an excellent medication for depression and ADD. For ADD, it is best at 150 mg TID (or 450 mg qd XL); for depression 300-450 mg qd (again, taken in divided doses TID if not XL).

Regular Welbutrin as in "Welbutrin" or "Welbutrin SR"?

--
Curious on your thoughts regarding tolerance and addrenal fatigue.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?p=477215#post477215
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=134240870#post470403
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?p=470385#post470390
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?p=474962#post474962

 

[AussieThunder]

For the readers of this thread, I have to give my own experience with Modafinil/Provigal. I took my first 100mg dose at 12pm and I could not get to sleep until 3am, so it was definitely effective in keeping me awake. I was super alert and had loads of energy all day. Next time, I took 100mg at 9am and was very productive and full of energy for the next 15 hours.
I've taken it about a dozen times since with similar results. For me it is very powerful at just 100mg/day.
Alchemist, I've never heard about Modafinil's adverse effects on the liver & kidneys. Do you have any references to support its effects on these organs?