r-ALA can make you FATTER!

[Animalkits]

Get serious, dude!

Those fuckers bring personal shit into every post including posting my picture, but maybe that's real fucking cool around here and permitted.

This is FRAUD and it has nothing to do with NOTHING and it's permitted!

'
It was approved as “meeting the claims of the label”, (the claims Animal says it doesn’t me'

Same here and just another example of another outright lie which YOU are permitting.
'You on the other hand have never spent a day over 150 pounds.'


And here is another:

'Animal why are you so dead set on showing your ignorance on this subject. You used to be smart enough to stay out of arguments that you had no knowledge of. And here you are now arguing a subject that you don't understand and have spent little or no time researching, with a man who holds 3 degrees, one a PhD, and who has spent most of the last year pouring over every word of literature ever written on this subject.

You should get on that bicycle you ride and take on Lance Armstrong in the next Tour de France, you've got a much better chance there.'

Kinda interesting how my shooting back is somehow a problem?

 

[TxLonghorn]

Kinda interesting how my shooting back is somehow a problem?

They went over the line as well and were told as much. And your pic was edited out.

We don't play favorites over here, and that includes you.

 

[georgie24]

this is pure bullshit. when i was on vicodien and couldnt train all i took was r-ala and watched my diet, i shredded up better on that then i did test/tren cycle i did. my waist lost alot of inches while my vascularity increased. my girl constanly accused me of being on cycle. the proof is in my results man

these r-ala bashing's are pure bull shit. i have no affiliation with anabolic fit, macro, nor ulter. i just exist with them on a message board..... i will stand up for r-ala till my nose bleeds and my finger tips are numb from posting

 

[ulter]

R+ Lipoic Acid is a prescription treatment for diabetes in Germany and other European countries. The reason is that it lowers insulin levels and causes greater glucose uptake. Fat gain in not listed as side effect of using R+ Lipoic Acid (natural form) because it has quite the opposite effect. As the 4000+ people using Glucorell R will tell you.

I see from your posts Animal that you consider all doctors idiots and their opinions invalid, unless of course they authored a study you wish to quote in your argument. But just for the record here is what some more of the world's finest researchers think of your idea of just using the regular ALA and not bothering to remove the S (synthetic). One of these quotes is from THE AUTHOR OF THE STUDY YOU QUOTE in your original post, Lester Packer.

"We're finding - and others are, too - that the R(+)-form - the natural form - is much more powerful than the racemic mixture ... Hopefully ... companies are going to be producing on more of a clinical scale the R(+)-form of lipoic acid, because we're finding very significant effects using this, as opposed to the racemic mixture."
Dr. Tory Hagen, in Mitochondrial Decay in Aging.

"We have presented in this study new information indicating that this enhancement of glucose metabolism is sterospecific, with the R(+)-enantiomer being much more effective than the S(-)- enantiomer."
Dr. Ryan Streeper and colleagues, in The American Journal of Physiology.

"Lipoic acid sold in a health food store is a synthetic mixture, a racemic mixture. And R[+]- is the natural form and S[-]- is an unnatural one ... And in our hands R[+]- works and S[-]- doesn't."
Dr. Bruce Ames, in Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence.

"R[+]-LA [that is, R(+)-lipoic acid], and not a racemic mixture of R[+]-and S[-]- LA, should be considered a choice for therapeutic applications."
Dr. Lester Packer and colleagues, in Free Radical Biology and Medicine.

"The S[-]-enantiomer … part of the racemate, which is present as about a 50% impurity, needs to be eliminated."
Dr. Guido Zimmer and colleagues, in Methods in Enzymoogy.


I realize that you have no respect for doctors, however, if your going to quote a study by one then you should know that he disagrees with your translation of his work.

 

[ulter]

I see Tx is a man of his word and he doesn't play favorites.
He edited mine and Macro's references to Animal's physique and lack of mass while leaving in this insult quoted below about me that Animal wrote that started the personal attacks.

" At least I'm still an athlete and not a fat ass behind a desk looking to scam people for a buck."


I am posting this just in case people get the idea that WE started the personal insults on poor helpless Animal.

"Those fuckers bring personal shit into every post including posting my picture, but maybe that's real fucking cool around here and permitted."

I don't know what you're crying about Animal all your insults about me, a sponsor here, are still there. If anyone has a right to complain it would be me.

 

[Drveejay11]

After sifting through the above posts from BOTH sides presented here, I do not think the argument is whether or not r-ALA or ALA fasciliates glucose disposal efficiently; but rather, if it effectively and favorably drives the micronutrients (amino's and glucose) into muscle cells preferentially over fat cells or does it simply "clear them" from the blood stream quicker.

How has it been shown to selectively enhance the muscle cells' ability to pull nutrients in as opposed to the adipocytes doing the same? Wouldn't THIS be based entirely on the individual's genetic dispositon...."where" the amino's and glucose will be temporarily stored and NOT solely based on glucose clearance as THIS does not dictate the focal directon of disposal? This would be more of an increased receptor cell sensitivity issue (initiating the the pre-step of creating an environment conducive to glucose clearing) verses a clearing of the glucose/amino's.

I have taken ALA (tried both) on and off for ~2 years now and I definitley "feel better" using it with the ingestion of higher carb meals. HOWEVER.......one thing that's always concerned me is this: HOW can I be assured once the glucose is cleared from my bloodstream, that it will be directed into my muscle cells vs my fat cells? How can I know that by taking ALA, I have induced an optimal environment for simple glucose clearance verses a much preferred increased inulin sensitivity scenario (muscle cell specific)?

Personally, when I consume my carb-up meals along side ala, I "feel" that ala has dome its "job" in assisting the rapid removal of glucose and therefore the feeling of lethargy (brought upon from excess insulin) is inhibited. Fine! I buy that 100%. I also believe that with LESS insulin floating around, there is obviously LESS fat storage! HOWEVER.....it still remains unclear WHERE the glucose is going. THIS to me has never been "proven".

WHY should it be assumed that the glucose is being disposed of "properly"? Define "properly"? If by that you mean.......clearing it out of your blood efficiently; resulting in the need for less insulin release.....I believe it IS disposed of "properly". However.......if you fail to prove that it will preferentially be driven into muscle cells verses fat cells.......I DO NOT think this could be/should be labeled as "proper glucose disposal" via increased insulin sensitivity; conversely....it merely becomes a glucose disposal agent without much significance (unless you are obese or a diabetic or someone pre-Syndrome X)...therfore its "purpose" becomes much less significant IMO.

Furthermore, if it follows the second example, essentially only "mimicking insulin" verses increasing insulin sensitivity favorably of the muscle cells; it would NOT favor glucose or amino acid uptake into the muscle cells. Again......its purpose becomes limited. Has THIS be shown one way or the other?

 

[TxLonghorn]

I see Tx is a man of his word and he doesn't play favorites.
He edited mine and Macro's references to Animal's physique and lack of mass while leaving in this insult quoted below about me that Animal wrote that started the personal attacks.

Look, I think animal started this, but it doesn't matter who started this, it's over with the personal attacks. Just because I didn't catch every negative reference, doesn't mean I didn't try.

It's amazing that 3 vets are getting so personal. And just because you sponsor this site doesn't mean you can post anything you damn well please. You're right, I don't play favorites, I want the truth, not the truth according to one or two people.

I'm going to lock this thread, because it's already turning into a whine-fest. And that's unfortunate, because I would like to read more about ala and r-ala both good and bad and make my decision based on that.

However, if the person that brings up possible problems with ala can't refrain from being a jackass, it hurts his argument. And when the response is equally as personal, it doesn't help the other side's arguments either.

IMO, everybody loses now unless this discussion can be brought up again, but next time with studies, etc., and not flames.