Tren or Winstrol for dropping BF

[Xlshamoon65]

Hey there! I looking into a possible future cycle and was hoping for some input! I wanted to run an NPP/ Prop cycle but wanted to clean up and excess water gained during the cycle with either winstrol or tren. I have never done either compound so will most likely go with winstrol and save the tren for down the line, but for those who have done both.... Which do you prefer in regards to lowering BF at the end of a cycle?

Thanks

 

[Megatron28]

Steroids don't lower body fat. Diet does. Steroids allow you to maintain muscle mass while in a caloric deficit.

And excess what on a cycle means you need to manage estradiol better.

 

[Teutonic]

I HAVE read studies where tren as a thermogenic appears to lean a person out but so microscopically I m o like winny cutting you up it s a myth unless ur already basically "there" as hard as a rock..it ll cause you more of the same just as winny will dry out a physique of an ADVANCED bodybuilder.

Neither are substitutes for the real weight dropper fat burning time proven maxims of-
Abs and cuts are made in the kitchen and or in conjunction with sensibly approached aerobics like treadmill, mild if long bike rides and test boosting sex marathons.

 

[AgeisjustaNumber]

.... test boosting sex marathons.

That's the best fat burner ever!

 

[AverageMan]

Steroids don't lower body fat. Diet does. Steroids allow you to maintain muscle mass while in a caloric deficit.

And excess water on a cycle means you need to manage estradiol better.

+1

DIET IS KING - especially when cutting body fat. You can EASILY cut BF while on nothing but a moderate test dose and keep muscle mass.

Honestly, dialing in your diet plan is much more effective than any compound.

 

[jolter604]

DIET DIET DIET
Steroids have never beem shown to burn fat....
Maybe clen of t3 t4 xtc

 

[3J]

abs are made in the kitchen...

 

[Xlshamoon65]

I definitely don't underestimate that 90% of dropping BF is diet! But I know the process is speed up/taken to the next level with either of those compounds! Thanks for the input everyone!

 

[.Vision.]

You're gonna hear mix reviews on this.. However, I have seen enough evidence that supports AAS having,creating a environment for fat burning..DIET without a doubt is crucial, and the pivotal player..However, there is real science behind fat loss and AAS, but please don't put all your money on it soley as an effective combatant..

AAS that are seen on the high androgenic scale will in fact promote/increase lypolysis..Thus andros have a higher binding affinity to AR's..

FYI; Androgen receptors are found throughout cellular groups, as well as FAT and muscle cell/groups, now we know that they initiate a response on AR's in muscle cells to promote size/growth, at the same given time they will have a cascade of effects on other cells and AR's found therein fat cells inducing activity/burning..

Higher/more potent the androgen binds to the androgen receptors, the greater the lipolytic response will be on adipose tissue (brown or white)...

Now lets also take into great consideration AR upregulation with the presence of androgens, more AR sites throughout targeting tissue..,There's a vast amount of activity in which a complex interplay between activation and inactivation mechanisms and signaling between cell groups, what People need to remember that hormones are "chemical messengers" that rely messages to cells that display specific receptors for each hormone and respond to the signaling..Depending on the compounds and the individuals metabolization ratio the hormone can/may make changes directly to a cell, by changing the genes that are activated, or by making changes indirectly to a cell by stimulating other signaling pathways inside a specific cell group that is effected and effect other processes, thus this can "initiate" an intracellular cascade of events.. So, the notion that fat loss is NOT presence, and to mitigate that AAS don't posses any fat loss properties is absurd...

So to the OP, yes AAS may assist with fat loss, however don't expect miracles and it's advised to have a lower body fat% by diet to expect to see more fat loss effects, but its not crucial..Have your macro's dialed in with your AAS intake, cardio ,and anything is possible, we've seen amazing things happen in this lifestyle..

There's an abundance of clinical research and peer-reviewed data that strongly supports testosterone (and other AAS) fat reducing actions and its preventative impact on adipocyte generation...As AAS (especially Testosterone) acts both in the breakdown of existing fat tissue and to hinder pre-adipocytes from maturing.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Testosterone therapy in hypogonadal men results in sustained and clinically meaningful weight loss

Abstract

WHAT IS ALREADY KNOWN ABOUT THIS SUBJECT:

Hypogonadism is associated with increased fat mass and reduced muscle mass, which contributes to obesity and health risks, such as cardiovascular disease.Testosterone treatment of hypogonadal men improves muscle mass and reduces fat mass; however, many of these studies are of short duration.Thus, the long-term effects of testosterone on body anthropometry are not known.

WHAT THIS STUDY ADDS:

Long-term testosterone treatment of hypogonadal men, up to 5 years duration, produced marked and significant decrease in body weight, waist circumference and body mass index. Hypogonadism contributes to reduced muscle mass and increased adiposity.Testosterone treatment ameliorates loss of muscle mass and reduces fat accumulation associated with hypogonadism. In this study, we evaluated the long-term effects of normalizing testosterone (T) levels in hypogonadal men on anthropometric parameters. Open-label, single-center, cumulative, prospective registry study of 261 men (32-84 years, mean 59.5 ± 8.4 years, with T levels ***8804;12 nmol L-1 [mean: 7.7 ± 2.1]). Among the 261 men on T treatment, we followed up on 260 men for at least 2 years, 237 for 3 years, 195 for 4 years and 163 for at least 5 years. Subjects received parenteral T undecanoate 1000 mg every 12 weeks after an initial interval of 6 weeks. Body weight (BW), waist circumference (WC) and body mass index (BMI) were measured at baseline and yearly after treatment with T. BW decreased from 100.1 ± 14.0 kg to 92.5 ± 11.2 kg and WC was reduced from 107.7 ± 10.0 cm to 99.0 ± 9.1 cm. BMI declined from 31.7 ± 4.4 m kg-2 to 29.4 ± 3.4 m kg-2. All parameters examined were statistically significant vs. baseline and vs. the previous year over 5 years, indicating a continuous weight loss (WL) over the full observation period. The mean per cent WL was 3.2 ± 0.3% after 1 year, 5.6 ± 0.3%, after 2 years, 7.5 ± 0.3% after 3 years, 9.1 ± 0.3% after 4 years and 10.5 ± 0.4% after 5 years. The data obtained from this uncontrolled, observational, registry study suggest that raising serum T to normal physiological levels in hypogonadal men produces consistent loss in BW, WC and BMI. These marked improvements were progressive over the 5 years of the study.


KEYWORDS:

Testosterone, obesity, waist circumference, weight loss

PMID: 24163704 [PubMed] PMCID: PMC3799011 Free PMC Article

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/instance/3799011/bin/cob0003-0073-f1.jpg

 

[Big_rich]

Steroids are not fat burners but do promote fat loss.

 

[.Vision.]

Steroids are not fat burners but do promote fat loss.

this... they do not directly, but rather indirectly!

They do promote this has been proven time and time again...

 

[Megatron28]

This is a huge qualified statement.

The data obtained from this uncontrolled, observational, registry study suggest that raising serum T to normal physiological levels in hypogonadal men produces consistent loss in BW, WC and BMI.

And not sure how well results observed in sick unhealthy men translate to healthy men. With an average age of 60 years old. Maybe it does... Maybe it doesn't.

 

[oldmusclemike]

Hey there! I looking into a possible future cycle and was hoping for some input! I wanted to run an NPP/ Prop cycle but wanted to clean up and excess water gained during the cycle with either winstrol or tren. I have never done either compound so will most likely go with winstrol and save the tren for down the line, but for those who have done both.... Which do you prefer in regards to lowering BF at the end of a cycle?

Thanks

So everyone is telling you the same thing really and that to drop BF it comes to diet and cardio. When I (used to) diet for a show it was the training using cardio along with my diet and to SUSTAIN my muscle as I dried out I used Winstrol. It doesn't burn fat.

Myself when I want to bulk so to speak or in a growth cycle I would use Tren do to it doesn't aromatize . You don't seem to understand this process or what steroid do and don't do.

 

[49ER]

If tren and winny were the answer id be one skinny shredded mother fucker. Youll lose fat over the years but not significant enough to count in it. You will get stronger look better but as i have found out diet combined with aas will speex things up. I love to eat at will so being lean is mever gonna happen for me unless i make the diet effort.

 

[carverelli]

The magic of aas in dieting is he propensity to keep the hard earned muscle on a calorie deficit as bf % nears and drops below 10% .muscle mass will still disappear with aas when getting real lean but not near as much when natty

 

[Teutonic]

AAS I m o promote both genetics AND MOTIVATION and ability to train harder and longer thus assist burning more fat in that getting of the couch, putting down the iphone ps4 controller and moving either walking, swimimming weight traing or INCREASED libido all of which release endorphins so..

Man being addictive to something or other be it tv =lethargy or sexuality or bodybuilding= seems the more active I am the more active I want to be in the gym, the yard, the water the sack with only food rest aas the limiting factor .( And fine fresh veal satisfying me.)

But that s me

 

[Black Beard]

With a caloric deficit, Trenbolone is probably best. Research shows it has some interesting effects on fat tissue. Of course, these are animal studies, so take it with a grain of salt. Caloric deficit is 90%. This is the way T3/Clen/Ephedrine(actual fat burners) work, they increase BMR and creater a caloric deficit while activating fat burning genes/processes in the body further. Androgens can help mobilize fat in the presence of caloric deficit.