Waiting on corisol levels to start HRT, at the end of my rope.

[WhatTRTmayCome]

Man you really are a fountain of knowledge. So looked up Clomid and testosterone and came across this article, very informative.

shiramillermd.com/blog/clomid-men-testosterone-alternative.html

Looking at the fact that my test is now in range, all be it on the low side and coupled with the fact that my LH is really low it seems that the likes of Triptorelin, HCG and clomid are my best options, but which one, if you had the choice would you go for and I guess just as importantly which one might the endo be more inclined to offer me?

You said the Triptorelin is tricky to administer so would I be right in saying I should steer away from that and TRT and aim for HCG and clomid? It also said that administrating clomid is somewhat "taboo" among doctors, is it something I could buy myself?

Which one of those to go for, or are they synergists that can be used at the same time?

Any other advise appreciated pal.

Anyone?

Also came across this thread, says taking clomid for a non PCT person like myself is a bad idea, thoughts?

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[Alpin]

Clomid is proven to restart HPTA'S. HCG is amalog LH. It's not the same as clomid. It causes slight suppression of your pituitary LH. couldn't care less what some clueless endo thinks about it. Most endos dont have a clue on what to do with TRT.

 

[WhatTRTmayCome]

Clomid is proven to restart HPTA'S. HCG is amalog LH. It's not the same as clomid. It causes slight suppression of your pituitary LH. couldn't care less what some clueless endo thinks about it. Most endos dont have a clue on what to do with TRT.

So based on what youve seen from my bloods, is clomid the best option for me atm and is TRT a bad idea for me, I think it is as I dont want to shut down my own T production?

I just dont want to fuk myself up going on TRT needlessly so I want to do whats best for my health. I mean IF...the doc says im putting you on TRT, even a low dose, should I say yes to it or push for clomid?

I need something to get my T higher man.

 

[Alpin]

So based on what youve seen from my bloods, is clomid the best option for me atm and is TRT a bad idea for me, I think it is as I dont want to shut down my own T production?

I just dont want to fuk myself up going on TRT needlessly so I want to do whats best for my health. I mean IF...the doc says im putting you on TRT, even a low dose, should I say yes to it or push for clomid?

I need something to get my T higher man.

28 years old and hypo pituitary hormones like yours i would most definitely try clomid or an hcg mono protocol before going on TRT. Not that TRT is bad. You might be able to restart with a good protocol. You are not even truly low in T.
Yes you do need a boost.
Your ALT is high, get GGT and AST tested as well.
Are you a drinker?
Maybe get a ultrasound done on your liver....

 

[WhatTRTmayCome]

28 years old and hypo pituitary hormones like yours i would most definitely try clomid or an hcg mono protocol before going on TRT. Not that TRT is bad. You might be able to restart with a good protocol. You are not even truly low in T.
Yes you do need a boost.
Your ALT is high, get GGT and AST tested as well.
Are you a drinker?
Maybe get a ultrasound done on your liver....

I used to be a heavy drinker from the ages of 22-26, then gave it up for a year followed by only drinking every once in a while like xmas or that, probably once every few months (im 28 now). I mentioned that to him the last time, and my initial results must of been different because he said my liver was fine, think he brought it up because my initial results had creatinine high, thats why I mentioned it.

It will be interesting to see what he says now.

If he gives me nothing at all and sends me on my way im tempted to ask him what advice would he give to me if I was to self prescribe clomid, id expect he tell me that if I was to do it just monitor my levels every few months but then im tasked with where to buy clomid and the purity/safety of it.

I mean they are selling it on ebay but is that a safe option. Other than that I have no idea where eles I could get it from, any suggestions?

 

[Alpin]

I used to be a heavy drinker from the ages of 22-26, then gave it up for a year followed by only drinking every once in a while like xmas or that, probably once every few months (im 28 now). I mentioned that to him the last time, and my initial results must of been different because he said my liver was fine, think he brought it up because my initial results had creatinine high, thats why I mentioned it.

It will be interesting to see what he says now.

If he gives me nothing at all and sends me on my way im tempted to ask him what advice would he give to me if I was to self prescribe clomid, id expect he tell me that if I was to do it just monitor my levels every few months but then im tasked with where to buy clomid and the purity/safety of it.

I mean they are selling it on ebay but is that a safe option. Other than that I have no idea where eles I could get it from, any suggestions?

Careful where you get pharmaceuticals. A documentary i saw on t.v. said a bunch of those online pharmacies are selling sugar pills and some ppl reportedly had the stuff tested and there was even rat poison in there.
I was in a position like you once...

 

[WhatTRTmayCome]

Careful where you get pharmaceuticals. A documentary i saw on t.v. said a bunch of those online pharmacies are selling sugar pills and some ppl reportedly had the stuff tested and there was even rat poison in there.
I was in a position like you once...

Mind if I ask you what you did and how it went?

 

[Alpin]

mind if i ask you what you did and how it went?

Actually a GP came around and wrote the script for me.
I never ran it for long. I felt weird coming off HCG and no adex and my estradiol was elevated when i went on clomid.

 

[Megatron28]

Don't get it off eBay. Use RUI, the forum sponsor. I have been happy with everything I have gotten from RUI.

 

[WhatTRTmayCome]

Right guys D day is upon me. I have a appointment with the endo in4 hours. I dont know how to feel about it, just hoping for the best and that some treatment will be administered to me. I will reply here with how I get on when I get home.

Wish me luck.

 

[WhatTRTmayCome]

Ok literally only now getting the chance to reply.

Well he decided to start me on TRT for 4 months, will have a check up in Nov then redo bloods in the new year.

He prescribed 25mg of Testo gel, yes a gel ill take what I can get and to apply that every 2 days. What do ye think about that?

Secondly when I went to the pharmacy they gave me 30 sachets of 50mg test and told me to only use half then throw away the other half, making up the 25mg, but then she said to apply it every day, but she only gave me 30 sachets so thats only 15 days I have. Anyway I rang the endo's secretary and he is to get back to me.

What he told me do was to use half a sachet (25mg) then fold it over and use the other half the day after but she said the box said once open and exposed to air that it wouldnt keep so now im confused ha plus from what she said id be taking 25mg everyday as opposed to 25mg every second day.

Anyway I got treatment so im delighted with that, what do you make of the way he has me taking it?

 

[Megatron28]

You need to use it daily.

 

[Chiefy]

The manufacturer's website recommends 5g of gel, or 50mg of testosterone, to be applied everyday. The dose your doctor suggested sounds pretty funky. I've never heard of any topical T that's supposed to be applied every other day, they are usually designed for daily applications.

If I had to take a guess, your doctor is trying to provide a "boost" to your natural testosterone, which isn't how TRT works. It replaces your natural production.

I'm not an expert on Testogel, but to me this sounds like a waste of time. I hate to be so negative because I'm sure you're excited about any progress in your treatment, but this doesn't sound like it would be an effective protocol. Some guys respond well to topicals, but it's generally at higher doses and with daily applications.

 

[WhatTRTmayCome]

The manufacturer's website recommends 5g of gel, or 50mg of testosterone, to be applied everyday. The dose your doctor suggested sounds pretty funky. I've never heard of any topical T that's supposed to be applied every other day, they are usually designed for daily applications.

If I had to take a guess, your doctor is trying to provide a "boost" to your natural testosterone, which isn't how TRT works. It replaces your natural production.

I'm not an expert on Testogel, but to me this sounds like a waste of time. I hate to be so negative because I'm sure you're excited about any progress in your treatment, but this doesn't sound like it would be an effective protocol. Some guys respond well to topicals, but it's generally at higher doses and with daily applications.

Dont mind any negativity after all were here to discuss TRT.

I did mention to him about kick starting mt own T production by doing this and it was what he is trying to do. I think the evry two days thing was to give a more even dose as not to be dealing with peak doses that leave you feeling like crap afterwards, but I dont know.

Yeah it seems weird that I only use half, but maybe its because he's being really cautious and wants me to be on as little as possible to get me to a certain level.

Im expecting a call from him anyway to confirm my dosage but he did say 25mg every 2 days, the only reason I want to speak to him is because of what the chemist told me, ie 25 mg every day.

You need to use it daily.

I dont know man, he said every two and to use only half a sachet.

If I did take it everyday that would be 175mg of test a week, wouldnt that be high for someone with secondary hypo to start off on?

 

[Chiefy]

Dont mind any negativity after all were here to discuss TRT.

I did mention to him about kick starting mt own T production by doing this and it was what he is trying to do. I think the evry two days thing was to give a more even dose as not to be dealing with peak doses that leave you feeling like crap afterwards, but I dont know.

Yeah it seems weird that I only use half, but maybe its because he's being really cautious and wants me to be on as little as possible to get me to a certain level.

Im expecting a call from him anyway to confirm my dosage but he did say 25mg every 2 days, the only reason I want to speak to him is because of what the chemist told me, ie 25 mg every day.



I dont know man, he said every two and to use only half a sachet.

If I did take it everyday that would be 175mg of test a week, wouldnt that be high for someone with secondary hypo to start off on?

You won't have to worry about large spikes in T on the doses you're talking about here. The absorption rate of topical creams/gels is very low. Many say that you're only absorbing about 7-15 percent of the testosterone from topicals. So it would be a very small dose that you'd actually be taking.

Topicals are meant to be taken everyday to avoid feeling like crap. The delivery system is very different than injectable T. You will probably feel like garbage on the days in between applications because your T levels will have dropped back down already.

Even if applied everyday, it's still a small dose at half of a packet. Maybe it would work for you, but I really doubt it. That's half of the dose recommended by the manufacturer. Half of a packet every other day is a quarter of the recommended dose, and a frequency that isn't recommended by them.

 

[Megatron28]

You would change the dosage so that you are taking the same amount over a one week period. You are just taking smaller amounts more frequently. Do your homework and you will see that gels need to be applied daily.

You also need to understand that taking exogenous testosterone will shut down what is left of your own natural (endogenous) testosterone production. It will not boat it. It will not kick start it into working again. Quite simply,if your body senses that it already has enough testosterone, it stops making more. So your doctors theory is all wrong. This is basic endocrinology 101.

If you want to try and boost/restart your natural test production and you are secondary hypogonadal, you can run Clomid. This would be instead of the gel or injections.

 

[WhatTRTmayCome]

You would change the dosage so that you are taking the same amount over a one week period. You are just taking smaller amounts more frequently. Do your homework and you will see that gels need to be applied daily.

You also need to understand that taking exogenous testosterone will shut down what is left of your own natural (endogenous) testosterone production. It will not boat it. It will not kick start it into working again. Quite simply,if your body senses that it already has enough testosterone, it stops making more. So your doctors theory is all wrong. This is basic endocrinology 101.

If you want to try and boost/restart your natural test production and you are secondary hypogonadal, you can run Clomid. This would be instead of the gel or injections.

Well fml is all I say. Thought I was getting help and moving in the direction and now im thinking of returning the T and asking the doctor will he give me clomid which will involve another appointment and more waiting.

Anyone got some whiskey, I sure could do with some right now.

Also Mega, if for whatever reason the doc convinces me to stay the course what am I looking at here?

Ill have bloods done early new year and if what you say is correct (no disrespect) my LH and T all take a hit, where would I go from there, I mean would I be doing serious damage if I do what the endo tells me or would it be reverse able?

 

[Megatron28]

Your LH and FSH will shut down while on exogenous test. Period. No doubt about it.

The longer you are on exogenous test and shut down, the harder it is to get your HPTA restarted. That is why we say TRT "is for life". You don't go on it with plans of coming off later. Just not the way it works. If you want to avoid going on it, you try everything you possibly can to get your own T cranking out again first.

 

[WhatTRTmayCome]

Your LH and FSH will shut down while on exogenous test. Period. No doubt about it.

The longer you are on exogenous test and shut down, the harder it is to get your HPTA restarted. That is why we say TRT "is for life". You don't go on it with plans of coming off later. Just not the way it works. If you want to avoid going on it, you try everything you possibly can to get your own T cranking out again first.

When you say shut down, do you mean my levels would go to zero?

 

[Megatron28]

Correct. No LH and No FSH = No natural testosterone.