downwardspiral
New member
And what kind of results are you getting? also if you are taking slin are you taking ALA with it also? and i do mean ALA not R-ALA. thanks for any and all responses
ALA who is using it
- Thread starter downwardspiral
- Start date
downwardspiral
New member
So i guess the consensus is that ALA is best used as anti-ox and licer protectant. what about R-ALA anybody using that
Billy_Bathgate
Community Veteran, Chemistry Guru
I use rALA only. I like it alot. No heartburn, great liver protection, and it works well, Ive gone hypo a couple times from it.
StoneColdNTO
Administrator
LAWNSAVER said:
Same here......plus it supposedly helps shuttle carbs out of the bloodstream.
Im sorry Billy but for the first time i have to disagree with you on this on.
I took 300mg of Jarrow Formulas ALA four times per day for two months and didn't like it. It made me feel like crap all day long and my workouts at the gym were weak; Meaning my strength went to shit.
If your looking for a liver protectant i prefer Liv.52, because it is proven by 100's of studies to protect and repair the liver.
&
If you want insane pumps at the gym take one serving of Swole, by Syntrax, a 1/2 before you workout. For 25$ it lasts you almost two months, and the pumps are in-fucking-sane.
ALA i feel is good for neither of these (pumps or liver protection), and their are very little "real" studies out there to prove my comments about this product are false. Actually, ive read studies about ALA in Muscular Development that say ALA is very bad for bodybuilders. In one of the many articles, about the negatives of ALA in their magazine, it stated that ALA prevents muscle growth. So, what im getting at here is dont waste your money on ALA.
I took 300mg of Jarrow Formulas ALA four times per day for two months and didn't like it. It made me feel like crap all day long and my workouts at the gym were weak; Meaning my strength went to shit.
If your looking for a liver protectant i prefer Liv.52, because it is proven by 100's of studies to protect and repair the liver.
&
If you want insane pumps at the gym take one serving of Swole, by Syntrax, a 1/2 before you workout. For 25$ it lasts you almost two months, and the pumps are in-fucking-sane.
ALA i feel is good for neither of these (pumps or liver protection), and their are very little "real" studies out there to prove my comments about this product are false. Actually, ive read studies about ALA in Muscular Development that say ALA is very bad for bodybuilders. In one of the many articles, about the negatives of ALA in their magazine, it stated that ALA prevents muscle growth. So, what im getting at here is dont waste your money on ALA.
J
Juice Authority
Guest
downwardspiral said:
That's funny...what kind of results are you getting? All ALA does is help direct the carbs you eat into your muscle cells instead of your fat cells so they aren't stored as fat. It also helps repair damaged liver cells.
grafixLSUalum
New member
i uss ALA for liver protection
Billy_Bathgate
Community Veteran, Chemistry Guru
Wise Guy said:
You sure you disagree...cause Im NOT talking about ALA (the racemix, s- & r-...the typical stuff found everywhre)...I am solely talking about rALA.
rALA is what does good for the liver
rALA is what does good from glycogen uptake in muscle cells
rALA is what is a good antioxidant
sALA seems to have a more insulin like mimicing effect. Thats about the only thing I have seen possibly good about it.
I think ALA is not very good in a practical sence. The benefits of r- and s- somewhat condradict each other. Plus the heartburn and urine smell.
I like rALA and use it only. I dont get freaky pumps or anything, but something similar to what creatine loading would feel like. Very minor if that. The more important reason I use it is for increased sensitivity to insulin, the liver protecting properties, and the antioxidant properties.
There is a website somewhere that has cheap r- powder too. Like very cheap. I cant remeber it, but when I dig it up Im gonna get some and then run a GCMS on it at my school or send it to my lab to check it out.
Billy_Bathgate
Community Veteran, Chemistry Guru
Also Wise Guy, in those studies a racemix was used. I have seen independent ones of s- only where the results were similar, but not with r-. That tend me to believe that s- does in fact have some negative qualities.
J
Juice Authority
Guest
Silverback316 said:
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Billy_Bathgate said:
Bro, I know you sure like r-ALA - you always very quick to point this out. But let me point out something for you.
rALA - is NOT the only isomer good for the liver. I could pull up a study right now that shows recemic (original ALA ) as having a higher antioxidant activity than rALA alone.
Even Macro won't swear up and down that r-ALA is better for liver protection - because he can't . There is no absolute proof.
Yea sure, MAYBE rALA is 50% better ( I am just using this as an example) , but since it cost 400-500% more that regular ALA, I personally don't believe it better at all, for that purpose.
Also, most of the studies you have seen about rALA, where did you see them? I remember not to long ago, after AF introduced their rALA. The was an entire new section on the AF web site about the rALA ( It's not there anymore). It contained the studies that showed how sALA was less effective at glucose disposal. It contained a bunch on studies and was set-up quite nicely. WELL...................
Do you know who originally created those pages......
Do you know who originally did those studies posted there and everywhere else ................
It wasn't an independant company and it wasn't AF. Those pages and studies were done by a company who was going to sell r-ALA. Yep, those studies and findings presented were done by a manufacturer of rALA. Those aren't independant lab test, those test were done to make rALA look good so you and everyone else would buy it and believe it was 2x,3x,5x better .....
I am not trying to start shit with you bro, but I believe studies can be misleading. Studies do not take into consideration all the other compounds in our bodies at one time, and all the reactions that occour because on it. Most studies only look at the compound in question, and cannot even come close to mimicking real world conditions. Studies should be used as a guide, not as the absolute.
Last edited:
Tattoomeblew
Father of 1 Dad to 4
LAWNSAVER said:
me to walmart its lke 5.96
Here are some studies:
Interactions of exercise training and lipoic acid on skeletal muscle glucose transport in obese Zucker rats.
Saengsirisuwan V, Kinnick TR, Schmit MB, Henriksen EJ.
Muscle Metabolism Laboratory, Department of Physiology, University of Arizona College of Medicine, Tucson, Arizona 85721-0093, USA.
Exercise training (ET) or the antioxidant R(+)-alpha-lipoic acid (R-ALA) individually increases insulin action in the insulin-resistant obese Zucker rat. The purpose of the present study was to determine the interactions of ET and R-ALA on insulin action and oxidative stress in skeletal muscle of the obese Zucker rat. Animals either remained sedentary, received R-ALA (30 mg x kg body wt(-1) x day(-1)), performed ET (treadmill running), or underwent both R-ALA treatment and ET for 6 wk. During an oral glucose tolerance test, ET alone or in combination with R-ALA resulted in a significant lowering of the glucose (26-32%) and insulin (29-30%) responses compared with sedentary controls. R-ALA alone decreased (19%) the glucose-insulin index (indicative of increased insulin sensitivity), and this parameter was reduced (48-52%) to the greatest extent in the ET and combined treatment groups. ET or R-ALA individually increased insulin-mediated glucose transport activity in isolated epitrochlearis (44-48%) and soleus (37-57%) muscles. The greatest increases in insulin action in these muscles (80 and 99%, respectively) were observed in the combined treatment group. Whereas the improvement in insulin-mediated glucose transport in soleus due to R-ALA was associated with decreased protein carbonyl levels (an index of oxidative stress), improvement because of ET was associated with decreased protein carbonyls as well as enhanced GLUT-4 protein. However, there was no interactive effect of ET and R-ALA on GLUT-4 protein or protein carbonyl levels. These results indicate that ET and R-ALA interact in an additive fashion to improve insulin action in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Because the further improvement in muscle glucose transport in the combined group was not associated with additional upregulation of GLUT-4 protein or a further reduction in oxidative stress, the mechanism for this interaction must be due to additional, as yet unidentified, factors.
PMID: 11408425 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
one more showing rALA to be more effective than sALA... especially in terms of lower plasma insulin and free fatty acid removal...
Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle.
Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ.
Department of Physiology, University of Arizona, Tucson 85721-0093, USA.
The racemic mixture of the antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) enhances insulin-stimulated glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant humans and animals. We determined the individual effects of the pure R-(+) and S-(-) enantiomers of ALA on glucose metabolism in skeletal muscle of an animal model of insulin resistance, hyperinsulinemia, and dyslipidemia: the obese Zucker (fa/fa) rat. Obese rats were treated intraperitoneally acutely (100 mg/kg body wt for 1 h) or chronically [10 days with 30 mg/kg of R-(+)-ALA or 50 mg/kg of S-(-)-ALA]. Glucose transport [2-deoxyglucose (2-DG) uptake], glycogen synthesis, and glucose oxidation were determined in the epitrochlearis muscles in the absence or presence of insulin (13.3 nM). Acutely, R-(+)-ALA increased insulin-mediated 2-DG-uptake by 64% (P < 0.05), whereas S-(-)-ALA had no significant effect. Although chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment significantly reduced plasma insulin (17%) and free fatty acids (FFA; 35%) relative to vehicle-treated obese animals, S-(-)-ALA treatment further increased insulin (15%) and had no effect on FFA. Insulin-stimulated 2-DG uptake was increased by 65% by chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment, whereas S-(-)-ALA administration resulted in only a 29% improvement. Chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment elicited a 26% increase in insulin-stimulated glycogen synthesis and a 33% enhancement of insulin-stimulated glucose oxidation. No significant increase in these parameters was observed after S-(-)-ALA treatment. Glucose transporter (GLUT-4) protein was unchanged after chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment but was reduced to 81 +/- 6% of obese control with S-(-)-ALA treatment. Therefore, chronic parenteral treatment with the antioxidant ALA enhances insulin-stimulated glucose transport and non-oxidative and oxidative glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant rat skeletal muscle, with the R-(+) enantiomer being much more effective than the S-(-) enantiomer.
PMID: 9252495 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
There are many more studies... just go to pubmed and search
Interactions of exercise training and lipoic acid on skeletal muscle glucose transport in obese Zucker rats.
Saengsirisuwan V, Kinnick TR, Schmit MB, Henriksen EJ.
Muscle Metabolism Laboratory, Department of Physiology, University of Arizona College of Medicine, Tucson, Arizona 85721-0093, USA.
Exercise training (ET) or the antioxidant R(+)-alpha-lipoic acid (R-ALA) individually increases insulin action in the insulin-resistant obese Zucker rat. The purpose of the present study was to determine the interactions of ET and R-ALA on insulin action and oxidative stress in skeletal muscle of the obese Zucker rat. Animals either remained sedentary, received R-ALA (30 mg x kg body wt(-1) x day(-1)), performed ET (treadmill running), or underwent both R-ALA treatment and ET for 6 wk. During an oral glucose tolerance test, ET alone or in combination with R-ALA resulted in a significant lowering of the glucose (26-32%) and insulin (29-30%) responses compared with sedentary controls. R-ALA alone decreased (19%) the glucose-insulin index (indicative of increased insulin sensitivity), and this parameter was reduced (48-52%) to the greatest extent in the ET and combined treatment groups. ET or R-ALA individually increased insulin-mediated glucose transport activity in isolated epitrochlearis (44-48%) and soleus (37-57%) muscles. The greatest increases in insulin action in these muscles (80 and 99%, respectively) were observed in the combined treatment group. Whereas the improvement in insulin-mediated glucose transport in soleus due to R-ALA was associated with decreased protein carbonyl levels (an index of oxidative stress), improvement because of ET was associated with decreased protein carbonyls as well as enhanced GLUT-4 protein. However, there was no interactive effect of ET and R-ALA on GLUT-4 protein or protein carbonyl levels. These results indicate that ET and R-ALA interact in an additive fashion to improve insulin action in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Because the further improvement in muscle glucose transport in the combined group was not associated with additional upregulation of GLUT-4 protein or a further reduction in oxidative stress, the mechanism for this interaction must be due to additional, as yet unidentified, factors.
PMID: 11408425 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
one more showing rALA to be more effective than sALA... especially in terms of lower plasma insulin and free fatty acid removal...
Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle.
Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ.
Department of Physiology, University of Arizona, Tucson 85721-0093, USA.
The racemic mixture of the antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) enhances insulin-stimulated glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant humans and animals. We determined the individual effects of the pure R-(+) and S-(-) enantiomers of ALA on glucose metabolism in skeletal muscle of an animal model of insulin resistance, hyperinsulinemia, and dyslipidemia: the obese Zucker (fa/fa) rat. Obese rats were treated intraperitoneally acutely (100 mg/kg body wt for 1 h) or chronically [10 days with 30 mg/kg of R-(+)-ALA or 50 mg/kg of S-(-)-ALA]. Glucose transport [2-deoxyglucose (2-DG) uptake], glycogen synthesis, and glucose oxidation were determined in the epitrochlearis muscles in the absence or presence of insulin (13.3 nM). Acutely, R-(+)-ALA increased insulin-mediated 2-DG-uptake by 64% (P < 0.05), whereas S-(-)-ALA had no significant effect. Although chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment significantly reduced plasma insulin (17%) and free fatty acids (FFA; 35%) relative to vehicle-treated obese animals, S-(-)-ALA treatment further increased insulin (15%) and had no effect on FFA. Insulin-stimulated 2-DG uptake was increased by 65% by chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment, whereas S-(-)-ALA administration resulted in only a 29% improvement. Chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment elicited a 26% increase in insulin-stimulated glycogen synthesis and a 33% enhancement of insulin-stimulated glucose oxidation. No significant increase in these parameters was observed after S-(-)-ALA treatment. Glucose transporter (GLUT-4) protein was unchanged after chronic R-(+)-ALA treatment but was reduced to 81 +/- 6% of obese control with S-(-)-ALA treatment. Therefore, chronic parenteral treatment with the antioxidant ALA enhances insulin-stimulated glucose transport and non-oxidative and oxidative glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant rat skeletal muscle, with the R-(+) enantiomer being much more effective than the S-(-) enantiomer.
PMID: 9252495 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
There are many more studies... just go to pubmed and search
Silverback316 said:
Listen guy. They may advertise muscletech alot, but they are equal about what supplements are good, and what supplements are complete garbage. And muscletech products work very well, they are just overpriced and use very good marketing practices. So, your post just now means what? NOTHING
Oh, and if they thought the product would be good for bodybuilders they would make it a muscletech product and market the shit out of it. But they dont do they.
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