Ask Anything You Want about TRT Thread........

[4150]

I have an appointment with a TRT clinic. I thought that they prescribe HCG but they do not. They prescribe weekly injections of test and an AI. This place sounded good because I would get seen by a PA and supposedly a doctor reviews everything even though I don't actually see him and my insurance covers it. Even though it's kind of expensive (four hundred dollars every seven weeks) I felt better knowing that I saw some sort of health practitioner and my insurance would pick up the bill after my deductible. My question is "is it always necessary to use HCG for TRT? Is there anyone on here that uses this protocol? If I didn't use HCG would my balls shrink?

 

[Megatron28]

I have an appointment with a TRT clinic. I thought that they prescribe HCG but they do not. They prescribe weekly injections of test and an AI. This place sounded good because I would get seen by a PA and supposedly a doctor reviews everything even though I don't actually see him and my insurance covers it. Even though it's kind of expensive (four hundred dollars every seven weeks) I felt better knowing that I saw some sort of health practitioner and my insurance would pick up the bill after my deductible. My question is "is it always necessary to use HCG for TRT? Is there anyone on here that uses this protocol? If I didn't use HCG would my balls shrink?

I went the first few years without hCG. I felt fine. My balls did shrink a little after a few years. It is a gradual process that takes time.

I started using hCG a couple of months ago to give it a try. My doc wouldn't prescribe it, but there are ways of getting it. I think my balls are regaining some of their size. My ejaculate volume is greater which is nice. But I can't say I have felt much different on it. Maybe a little more libido, but hard to say.

The downside of hCG is that it can make managing estradiol more complicated and it means more injections.

 

[TRTnooby]

I went the first few years without hCG. I felt fine. My balls did shrink a little after a few years. It is a gradual process that takes time.

I started using hCG a couple of months ago to give it a try. My doc wouldn't prescribe it, but there are ways of getting it. I think my balls are regaining some of their size. My ejaculate volume is greater which is nice. But I can't say I have felt much different on it. Maybe a little more libido, but hard to say.

The downside of hCG is that it can make managing estradiol more complicated and it means more injections.

I"m in the same boat, I have only been on TRT for 3 months, but so far I haven't seen any need for HCG. I've noticed a small bit of decrease in the size of the boys and the volume of ejaculate, but neither of them matter that much to me, they're just cosmetic. I'm curious what made you decide to try it after years of going with out? Have you needed to adjust your T and AI dosages at all since starting the HCG? I've been lucky so far to get in range with only 50 MG of T E3D and not even need an AI. I'm reluctant to mess with that.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Its not just about feeling the difference with HCG, its about the stimulation of the pituitary and more important the stimulation of progesterone.

Progesterone is responsible for endothelial function, if your not taking HCG with your testosterone then your arterial walls are most likely hardening.

It does not make any sense at all to fully shut down the HPTA when there are ways to offset it.

 

[Megatron28]

I"m in the same boat, I have only been on TRT for 3 months, but so far I haven't seen any need for HCG. I've noticed a small bit of decrease in the size of the boys and the volume of ejaculate, but neither of them matter that much to me, they're just cosmetic. I'm curious what made you decide to try it after years of going with out? Have you needed to adjust your T and AI dosages at all since starting the HCG? I've been lucky so far to get in range with only 50 MG of T E3D and not even need an AI. I'm reluctant to mess with that.

I decided to try it because I have heard and read about the many positive benfits of including hCG in your TRT protocol. I tried to get my doc to prescribe it for a while but that didn't go anywhere. So I finally decided to get some on my own.

And to be honest, I missed being able to give my balls a good scratch. It wasnt the same anymore either when my wife was giving them their needed attention. She didn't notice that they had shrunk some, but I have.

I m going to keep using it as it seems to have positive benefits for me. And it has not made TRT (or estradiol) more difficult to manage in my case.

 

[4150]

I thought that most good TRT protocols include HCG. I am surprised to hear that you have not been using it. The doctor I will be seeing may prescribe it if I want. It was the lady that took my appointment that told me they generally do not prescribe it. In the six months I have been on TRT I feel like my testicles don't hang down like they did and they are not as sensitive although they still feel the same size. I don't think I am imagining it. I have read many times the testes produce a lot more than just testosterone and I don't think I want to stop them from producing the small amount that they were in the first place. I think my wife likes them and the fluid they produce even more than me. You mentioned you got it on your own. Can I PM you and talk privately some time?

 

[Megatron28]

I thought that most good TRT protocols include HCG. I am surprised to hear that you have not been using it. The doctor I will be seeing may prescribe it if I want. It was the lady that took my appointment that told me they generally do not prescribe it. In the six months I have been on TRT I feel like my testicles don't hang down like they did and they are not as sensitive although they still feel the same size. I don't think I am imagining it. I have read many times the testes produce a lot more than just testosterone and I don't think I want to stop them from producing the small amount that they were in the first place. I think my wife likes them and the fluid they produce even more than me. You mentioned you got it on your own. Can I PM you and talk privately some time?

If I were to guess, I would wager that most doctors do not prescribe hCG for their TRT patients. And the ones who do get it are most likely trying to have another child. I don't have stats for this though.

Please do not PM me asking for sources. Sorry.

 

[Alpin]

Progesterone is responsible for endothelial function, if your not taking HCG with your testosterone then your arterial walls are most likely hardening.

It does not make any sense at all to fully shut down the HPTA when there are ways to offset it.

This sounds dangerous. Hardening of the artery's?
Like arteriosclerosis?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

This sounds dangerous. Hardening of the artery's?
Like arteriosclerosis?

Well keep in mind we don't have anything to prove this is what happens. But we do know progesterone is responsible for "lubing" the arterial walls so to speak. So without it, what would be the logical thing that happens?

This is not something that happens overnight. Arterial walls begin to harden and then you may have some stressful event occur, when this happens your body sends out cholesterol to patch up the cracks in the arterial walls. Overtime more and more cholesterol collects on these patches, then out of no where one day you get clotting because the patch has gotten too big and blocks blood flow.

So progesterone is very important to men, and we know when our testicles are shut down, we are not producing much if any progesterone at all.

Over the years I have learned you can look into things too much, its really as simple as this, why let your HPTA shut down when you can do something to prevent it? It just makes sense.

IMT has tons of data to go on now that they have been around for 5 years, and they notice that men on HCG tend to have better cholesterol levels than those on testosterone alone.

Obviously there is no way to directly link it, but it definitely makes sense to take HCG with your testosterone.

 

[Alpin]

Well keep in mind we don't have anything to prove this is what happens. But we do know progesterone is responsible for "lubing" the arterial walls so to speak. So without it, what would be the logical thing that happens?

This is not something that happens overnight. Arterial walls begin to harden and then you may have some stressful event occur, when this happens your body sends out cholesterol to patch up the cracks in the arterial walls. Overtime more and more cholesterol collects on these patches, then out of no where one day you get clotting because the patch has gotten too big and blocks blood flow.

So progesterone is very important to men, and we know when are testicles shut down, we are not producing much if any progesterone at all.

Over the years I have learned you can look into things too much, its really as simple as this, why let your HPTA shut down when you can do something to prevent it? It just makes sense.

IMT has tons of data to go on now that they have been around for 5 years, and they notice that men on HCG tend to have better cholesterol levels than those on testosterone alone.

Obviously there is no way to directly link it, but it definitely makes sense to take HCG with your testosterone.

I hear you DET. Alot of guys cant handle HCG on TRT judging by some posts on here....
it gives them anxiety and they can't get "dialed in".
That's the only negative I see that would keep one from using it.

Progesterone is important. Pregnenolone is also made in the testes. The two go hand in hand for optimum function right DET?

Clots eh??? Hmmmm...
it's making me nervous hearing that.
It's not impossible to to fully rule out a badly administered TRT protocol may have caused all that trouble in those TRT patients in that study released last fall.

Isn't the HPTA shut down even with HCG on TRT?

 

[Megatron28]

Isn't the HPTA shut down even with HCG on TRT?

It keeps the testicles functioning a bit. So the T in HPTA.

 

[TRTnooby]

Well keep in mind we don't have anything to prove this is what happens. But we do know progesterone is responsible for "lubing" the arterial walls so to speak. So without it, what would be the logical thing that happens?

This is not something that happens overnight. Arterial walls begin to harden and then you may have some stressful event occur, when this happens your body sends out cholesterol to patch up the cracks in the arterial walls. Overtime more and more cholesterol collects on these patches, then out of no where one day you get clotting because the patch has gotten too big and blocks blood flow.

So progesterone is very important to men, and we know when our testicles are shut down, we are not producing much if any progesterone at all.

Over the years I have learned you can look into things too much, its really as simple as this, why let your HPTA shut down when you can do something to prevent it? It just makes sense.

IMT has tons of data to go on now that they have been around for 5 years, and they notice that men on HCG tend to have better cholesterol levels than those on testosterone alone.

Obviously there is no way to directly link it, but it definitely makes sense to take HCG with your testosterone.

I'm a skeptic by nature, but it just doesn't sit right with me that a guy selling HCG is making some scary claims about what will happen if you don't take HCG without any proof. If you have data publish a study, if not don't go around implying that people will have a heart attack if they don't use your product. Thats just FUD.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Ya ok newb.

There are many things we believed and did in the TRT world well before there was an exact clinical model with data.

IMT has the data, as I pointed out. Im sorry the medical community is so far behind on testosterone replacement there isn't it study showing the effects of depleted progesterone for long periods of time, after all most doctors to this day think it is irrelevant to men along with estradiol.

In the meantime we continue to make strides based on assumptions and basic human physiology.

It boils down to the fact that progesterone is made in the testicles, and when they are shut down progesterone is suppressed. Its a fact progesterone plays a role in endothelial function.

Man I wonder if we always only did stuff if there was a study out what kind of advances would the medical community make? Oh wait we already did that for 70 years, we thought testosterone gave men prostate cancer thats right.

So for 70 years we chemically castrated men with prostate cancer, killing their manhood, only to find out that testosterone may actually help to prevent prostrate cancer.

I can show you both studies, and there are studies out both ways. I can also show you a study linking testosterone to leg clotting. So whats your point?

I don't need your approval, and you can kiss my ass if you think I would spread FUD you TRT newb.

My reputation speaks for itself thank you very much.

buh bye.

 

[Megatron28]

I'm a skeptic by nature, but it just doesn't sit right with me that a guy selling HCG is making some scary claims about what will happen if you don't take HCG without any proof. If you have data publish a study, if not don't go around implying that people will have a heart attack if they don't use your product. Thats just FUD.

Det Oak doesn't post a lot here lately so not everyone knows him, but he has over 10K posts since 2009. When I first joined 'Ology, he was a life saver for me. I cannot begin to tell you how much he helped me and how much I learned from him. He is a tremendous asset when it comes to TRT and a person who is very gracious with his time,experience and knowledge.

If you think he is giving out bad advice and trying to scare people so he can help IMT sell a $6 vial of hCG, you should go back and reconsider things. Det Oak has never done anything here to have his character questioned.

 

[TRTnooby]

Det Oak doesn't post a lot here lately so not everyone knows him, but he has over 10K posts since 2009. When I first joined 'Ology, he was a life saver for me. I cannot begin to tell you how much he helped me and how much I learned from him. He is a tremendous asset when it comes to TRT and a person who is very gracious with his time,experience and knowledge.

If you think he is giving out bad advice and trying to scare people so he can help IMT sell a $6 vial of hCG, you should go back and reconsider things. Det Oak has never done anything here to have his character questioned.

Can I buy a bottle of HCG from them for 6 dollars? I dont' think I can. I'm pretty sure that I would have to sign up and pay 150-200 a month and order all of my medicines through them. I never said he was giving bad advice, I said that by saying you might have a heart attack if you don't take HCG, without anything more than conjecture to back that up, he's spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD), a common tactic when somebody is selling something.

I think IMT, and companies like them provide an excellent service, albeit a pricey one. I don't' think they are doing anything wrong, but lets not pretend they are not a business with something to sell.

Ya ok newb.

There are many things we believed and did in the TRT world well before there was an exact clinical model with data.

IMT has the data, as I pointed out. Im sorry the medical community is so far behind on testosterone replacement there isn't it study showing the effects of depleted progesterone for long periods of time, after all most doctors to this day think it is irrelevant to men along with estradiol.

In the meantime we continue to make strides based on assumptions and basic human physiology.

It boils down to the fact that progesterone is made in the testicles, and when they are shut down progesterone is suppressed. Its a fact progesterone plays a role in endothelial function.

Man I wonder if we always only did stuff if there was a study out what kind of advances would the medical community make? Oh wait we already did that for 70 years, we thought testosterone gave men prostate cancer thats right.

So for 70 years we chemically castrated men with prostate cancer, killing their manhood, only to find out that testosterone may actually help to prevent prostrate cancer.

I can show you both studies, and there are studies out both ways. I can also show you a study linking testosterone to leg clotting. So whats your point?

I don't need your approval, and you can kiss my ass if you think I would spread FUD you TRT newb.

My reputation speaks for itself thank you very much.

buh bye.

If you have the data publish the data. Don't act all indignant when someone calls you out for making unsupported claims. That just makes me think you are full of shit. I don't know one way or the other, I'm new to all this. Educate me.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

you still don't get it and you probably won't get it, for a long time.

I don't have the time or patience to argue or educate you. Do it yourself.

 

[Alpin]

I know for one thing I'm testing Progesterone too from now on. It's not only endothelial health we need it for. Pregnenolone ----> Progesterone----> cortisol etc for the p450 side chain cleavage. The adrenals need this.


Try not to kill each other guys.
DET could to have you in your thread again.
We missed you around here.

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

If you keep you L-arginine and NO2 levels up you won't see hardening of the arteries to my best knowledge. And if you can find $6 HCG by me 100 of them. HCG is a must on cycle and with TRT. The difference is very obvious.

 

[trtbaldguy]

My recent bloodwork came back odd. I've been consistent for a long time with my dosage and test results. This last round of bloodwork came back at 490 T (had been consistently around 1000) with good estrogen (14) and good red blood cell counts (mid 40's). The only thing that changed was some fairly heavy hiking during hunting season, to the tune of about 100 miles in 15 days of hunting, a lot of it pretty hefty elevation gain. Could this cause an anomaly like this? The doctor was kind of weirded out by it, but said the exercise could have caused it. I'm bumping my dosage up to 1 mg from .8 mg, and i just now started my HCG back up (2 months on, 1 off). When the blood was drawn i'd been off HCG for 3.5 weeks, and it was immediately prior to my T injection. I'm supposed to do bloodwork again in 6 weeks. Any input?

 

[Megatron28]

My recent bloodwork came back odd. I've been consistent for a long time with my dosage and test results. This last round of bloodwork came back at 490 T (had been consistently around 1000) with good estrogen (14) and good red blood cell counts (mid 40's). The only thing that changed was some fairly heavy hiking during hunting season, to the tune of about 100 miles in 15 days of hunting, a lot of it pretty hefty elevation gain. Could this cause an anomaly like this? The doctor was kind of weirded out by it, but said the exercise could have caused it. I'm bumping my dosage up to 1 mg from .8 mg, and i just now started my HCG back up (2 months on, 1 off). When the blood was drawn i'd been off HCG for 3.5 weeks, and it was immediately prior to my T injection. I'm supposed to do bloodwork again in 6 weeks. Any input?

First thought is that Esrradiol of 14pg/ml is not good. That is too low. When you say estrogen do you really mean estradiol? And are you using an AI?

I would not change your test dosage it it has been working for you all along. I would just go back on hCG. Get blood work in 6 weeks and see if things are back to normal.