Dispute Fonz's post cycle recovery dbol bridge

[ulter]

Hulkster I can tell you're in the medical profession. You quote the mantra of the established medical community as though you've rehearsed it all your life.

"The longer you use toxic Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) (like dbol), the longer you delay post-cycle recovery"

You are saying that the liver toxicity of dbol causes delayed recovery of one's HPTA. Is that correct?


"I see dead people"

I don't work with dead people or live people in the same capsity you do. But after cycling for over 20 years I have more real live practical experience with this subject than you will ever have.

 

[Hulkster]

Hulkster I can tell you're in the medical profession. You quote the mantra of the established medical community as though you've rehearsed it all your life.

"The longer you use toxic Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) (like dbol), the longer you delay post-cycle recovery"

You are saying that the liver toxicity of dbol causes delayed recovery of one's HPTA. Is that correct?


"I see dead people"

I don't work with dead people or live people in the same capsity you do. But after cycling for over 20 years I have more real live practical experience with this subject than you will ever have.

20 years of "practical" experience? Try working in a goddamn hospital emergency room in a city to see if your definiton of "practical" experience holds up. I don't care if you've had 200 years of experience, I've always been a follower of "quality over quantity", so I'll take quality medical reports over numerous years of people following bogus medical advice any day. Nothing personal ulter. It's good to have these discussions. I greatly value and respect your opinions, and the AF store is a godsend--especially your Glucorell-R (which I have personally stood up for as a neutralizer of diabetic conditions to skeptic doctors I've spoken with). Lively--and even heated--- discussion expands people's minds on this site.

 

[ulter]

How many people in the ER are coming off a deca cycle?

I'm just phuckin with ya bro.

Tell the doctors who doubt Glucorell R to look up Dr L Packer. He's authored over 500 published studies and edited over 50 books. If they don't believe him they should choose another profession.

 

[ulter]

You know what? I was just thinking about what you said and I remembered that I DID GO TO THE ER the first time I crashed. They ran a bunch of tests and told me I had Mono and sent me home to die. It took 6 weeks to recover.

 

[Hulkster]

You know what? I was just thinking about what you said and I remembered that I DID GO TO THE ER the first time I crashed. They ran a bunch of tests and told me I had Mono and sent me home to die. It took 6 weeks to recover.

Mono? hahaha, you got stuck with some moron doctor. Even a straitlaced, nerdy doctor who wouldn't touch a single tab of anavar wouldn't say something like that. Nothing pesonal intended against any member, but I guess you got one of those recently graduated, by-the-book Indian or Asian doctors with no common sense?

 

[ready2explode]

The problem is ulter, 1.)of the ppl who make the claims that the dbol bridge worked dont have the knowledge to make such a conclusion 2.) are biased 3.) dont actually get tests run before and after - they just go on "feel" which doesnt cut it.

Enough has been said on my part to prove what I'm saying. Readers can make their decisions from here.

 

[bigdelt69]

Ah, nothing like good mature debate

 

[ulter]

So if a guy has a headache and takes an asprin and it goes away, he should read up on it rather than just knowing the asprin made his headache go away. Because he didn't get tested to make sure the pain was gone and he doesn't have enough medical background to make the determination that the pain is gone.
I see your logic now.

 

[RoadHouse]

So if a guy has a headache and takes an asprin and it goes away, he should read up on it rather than just knowing the asprin made his headache go away. Because he didn't get tested to make sure the pain was gone and he doesn't have enough medical background to make the determination that the pain is gone.
I see your logic now.

that comparison is a little too far off for me. Pain is individually percieved, you cant measure pain medically. Whereas you can measure if someone is recovered or not yet.

 

[ulter]

You've obviously never crashed.

 

[RoadHouse]

me? i have, hard. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), clomid, nolva, and slin worked flawlessly the next cycle. I crashed off of nolva only.

 

[ulter]

Then I don't understand. You're saying a person would know if a headache was gone but they wouldn't know if a crash was gone. A crash is felt throughout your body. If you crashed I don't know how you can say that you wouldn't feel it if your crash was suddenly gone.

 

[RoadHouse]

Its pointless to argue with you Ulter

 

[Dial_tone]

To a certain extent (not everyone) crashes are for the weak-minded....people who are convinced that they
A) CAN'T grow without juice and
b) will lose size after a cycle.

Seven cycles and I've yet to do my first post-cycle recovery and I've yet to lose my first post cycle pound. I do have a brief (1-2 weeks) period where I don't want to train. Switching to a 2 on/1 off routine seems to help with that. I might even do circuit training for a week or two. I may skip my leg workout and do a 20-30 mile bike ride. I expect to keep all my gains so I don't set myself up to fail. I've always stayed off 3-6 months between cycles so a super quick recovery hasn't been necessary.
I just came off a 10-week fina cycle on 5/10? and I feel great. My libido and erectile function were intact the entire time on, possibly even up. By the way I'm 38 yrs old. Then again this was my first cycle since 1986 so I'm sure that had an effect on things. Do three back to back 12-week on/12-week off cycles and things might very well be different.
Don't feel like working out today? SO FUCKING WHAT? You probably didn't feel like doing those last 3 reps of squats two weeks ago either but you still did them. Probably don't always feel like going to class or work either. Get off your ass or take up golf; maybe Annika Sorenstam will let you carry her bag.
CAN'T is the worst 4-letter word in bodybuilding.

Shut up and train.
DT

 

[RoadHouse]

As is in the case with real life, on the net, sometimes arguing with the wall is actually more productive. Happy bridging.

 

[xtinct]

To a certain extent (not everyone) crashes are for the weak-minded....people who are convinced that they
A) CAN'T grow without juice and
b) will lose size after a cycle.

Seven cycles and I've yet to do my first post-cycle recovery and I've yet to lose my first post cycle pound. I do have a brief (1-2 weeks) period where I don't want to train.

Shut up and train.
DT

Dial_tone, with all due respect (and I don't mean that sarcatically) posts like that will do little more than frustrate the average person. As you have admitted in the past, you are blessed with incredible genetics, so it would be a big mistake to assume that your experience is representative of most other people. I consider myself an average person. I can't gain tons of muscle on 500mg WK like you can, it takes forever for my T levels to recover after a cycle, and unless I use something after my cycle, both my strength and mass go down rapidly while my T is low. This has nothing to do with not wanting to train or being lazy, it has everything to do with my physiology. I think that you should consider that before you start accusing others of being lazy.

 

[Dial_tone]

Actually I don't think my genetics are better than average; I simply acknowledge that other people seem to think they are. I grow tits just looking at a bottle of test. That's not my idea of great genetics. You likely could gain tons of muscle on 500mg/week if you waited til the right time to start juicing and dosed properly.
People today juice after 1-2 years of training start off with 600-700mg/week on their first cycle.This is more AS than most newbies are able to handle because their muscles can't be pushed hard enough to make use of all that AS. Their net gains are much worse than expected so what do they do next time? They bump the dosage to 800-900mg/week. This is not the answer.
AS dosage should mirror your calorie drops when you're trying to cut. Only a knucklehead would immediately go from 4,000 calories/day to 2,000. You go to 3,600 cals until weight loss stops, then 3,200 to 2,800 and so on. That's what I do with my cycles and that's why I make progress on low doses. It's not genetics.....it's simple logic as I see it. I don't see any reason why people on fitness boards (80% of whom just want to look good at the beach or club) need more juice than top pros/amateurs of the 80's & early 90's.
If somebody here would be willing to do what I say for 2-3 years I could prove it. However, people in the microwave generation want everything yesterday so I don't anticipate that happening.

 

[SWALE]

It is absolutely ludicrous to suggest that you can take a medication which is well proven to cause suppression without causing suppression. Anyone who says you can is mistaken.

As far as "tricking" your body by adding the d'bol to coincide with the natural morning testosterone spike, do you think your body does not sense the morning spike and adjust its output to match same? And why would anyone think that as long as they aren't suppressing the body for the ENTIRE day you aren't suppressing it at all?

Sorry, Boys, the old adage (still) holds true: there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[SWALE]

As I look through the proposed "recovery program" I see two other suggestions which are lunacy. First, 5000IU of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is waaaaaay too much. 3000IU has been shown to induce a 10-fold increase in aromatase activity. Aromatase is toxic to the Leydig cells. Therefore, while fighting the secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism from the AAS, you will also be inducing primary hypogonadism--which will be permanent. And there is only so much testosterone your testes can produce at a time, and that point is reached long before the 5000IU is utilized. So this suggestion makes a lot of sense, huh?

Next, using Arimidex post cycle will drive estrogen levels to near-undetectable concentrations. That will further damage your already whacked-out Lipid Profile, and extend the time of plaque deposition within the lining of your cardiovascular system. Another great idea.

Finally, you can't recommend a one-size-fits-all dosing protocol. A guy who weighs 175lbs has vastly different needs than a 275lb monster. To suggest otherwise goes against all we know about pharmacology.

To sum it up, it scares me to think anyone whould read this garbage and then actually try it. If you do, you will eventually add yourself to the examples those who just can't wait to say "I told you so" cite as evidence that all steroid use is bad.

 

[!@#$%^&]

ALL HAIL SWALE