Dispute Fonz's post cycle recovery dbol bridge

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SWALE said:
It is absolutely ludicrous to suggest that you can take a medication which is well proven to cause suppression without causing suppression. Anyone who says you can is mistaken.


I don't think many would argue that it doesn't cause suppression to some small degree in some people. But that's acceptable when you are trying to recover. It only means you may take longer to regain your full natural test. But in the mean time you won't be crashing, you'll train better, feel better, and yes folks, keep more of your gains.
It's called quality of life Swale. It's worth the extra recovery time.

It's simply amazing to me how many people make "informed" posts about something used by so many for so long they have never done themsleves. All the people who have been talking about how it can't work have never tried. Until all the geniuses showed up this past year posting about something you hadn't tried was considered wrong to do.

Now all you need to do is come on a board and say, "I am a doctor listen to me" or "I found a study". Even though that person has never used this method that has been used by bber's for over twenty years, doesn't know anyone who has tried it, and newbies will praise the post and throw rose petals at his feet.


One more time Swale. Lipid Profiles don't mean squat to an athelete on or coming off a cycle. Those numbers correct themselves in a matter of weeks.
 
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Ulter--The point is, you CAN'T recover fully while you are bridging. It's as simple as that.

BTW, I have ten years of experience doing steroids, and knew just about everything about them which was available at that time (long before starting medical school).

And if you think it doesn't matter that you are adding to the plaque you are packing into your cardiovascular system, then enjoy your heart attack. I'm trying to save others from a similar fate.

Ulter, a wise man gathers information before drawing conclusions.
 
We've already had this discussion. The latest research shows that there are conditions that have to be met in order for foam cells to form and clog arteries. Those conditions are not present in most athletes. I have gathered more information about this than you have access to.

I never said you don't have experience with steroids. I posted you don't have experience with coming off a cycle with a dbol bridge. And you don't.

Swale, people come to the boards to either learn or teach. YOU however came to the boards to troll for patients. You see I remember your first posts. You now make your living off these boards and constantly try to invoke some fear factor to drive people into your practice. What you're doing is very transparent to even the most casual observer.

I make a living on the boards now too. But I was here for 2 years helping people before the AF Store even existed.
 
you can argue all you want but i know for a personal fact that the dbol bridge kept me shutdown , i had bloodwork done at my dr a few weeks post cycle then again a month later and i was still suppresed , i didnt get a copy from the doctor but both total t levels were in the low 200's, this is not he said /she said this is my personal medicly documented experience , i did standard 36 pill clomid therapy 2 weeks after last eth shot supplemented with .5 md adex eod , i knew before i got the results back what they were because i felt like shit , it was definately a different feeling than other post cycles
 
"i know for a personal fact that the dbol bridge kept me shutdown"
"both total t levels were in the low 200's"

If you had t levels in the 200's then you weren't shut down so those two statements are contradicting.

Without having been through it with you I can't comment on what happened or why.
 
ulter said:
"i know for a personal fact that the dbol bridge kept me shutdown"
"both total t levels were in the low 200's"

If you had t levels in the 200's then you weren't shut down so those two statements are contradicting.

Without having been through it with you I can't comment on what happened or why.
pre cycle they were in the low 700s and now they are in the 200s , suppresed/shutdown whatever you want to call it it sucks
 
ulter said:
How long did you use the dbol after the clomid was done?
i ran the dbol along with the .5mg adex eod for about 3 more weeks [ ran out of adex so i stopped dbol at around 23-24 days ]
 
WOW! This is really starting to take an ugly turn with two board sponsors going at each other. I would say that both sides have some good points, but part of the problem is that in the abscence of actual numbers (i.e., T levels) people tend to think in terms of absolutes. What I mean is that the opponents of using Dbol keep saying that even 10mg will supress you. Of course you are correct. I don't think anyone is trying to argue that Dbol does not cause some suppression. The critical question here is how much supression the Dbol will cause and how long it will last. Unfortunately the answer to those questions will vary greatly between individuals, and I am afraid that it is impossible to give a conclusive answer that will hold true in all cases.

As I see it, the answer is this: if you don't crash and recover within a reasonable amount of time just using clomid (or maybe nothing at all) then by all means stay away from the Dbol. You simply don't need it. However, if your T levels take a longer time to recover and you tend to lose a significant amount of your cycle gains, then I would suggest that you give the bridge a try. The important thing is to have your T levels checked at least three times. The first time toward the end of your bridge, the second time about two weeks after your last Dbol dose, and a third time about two months after your last dose. You will know that the bridge is working for you if the results of the first test indicate that your T levels have recovered to the point where you won't crash anymore. Your levels will still be significantely below normal but that isn't the point. All you are going for is to get them high enough that you won't crash after discontinuing the Dbol. Then stop the Dbol and get tested again about two weeks later. This time, your T levels should be much closer to your pre-cycle levels. If they are not, then maybe the Dbol suppressed you too much and the bridge probably isn't for you. But if they are, you have accomplished your goal -- that is, you used Dbol to bridge the period of extremely low T levels long enough to avoid a hard crash when you finally come off completely, and you are now on your way to complete recovery (to be confirmed by the third test).
 
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ulter said:
So you ran it for 24 days... and how long ago did you stop using it?
stayed off for a while but i didnt get my blood rechecked , my doc put me on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) , ulter im not saying that your wrong but everyone is different some people cant even look at test without gyno and others including myself dont even bloat very much below 1000 mg ,some get deca/fina dick some dont , the differences we have make it hard to come up with absolute solutions that work for everybody , i didnt document my situation like i should because quite frankly i didnt expect it to happen , the info i provided is as close to exact as my memory allows but the numbers/days i have given are plenty close enough for comparison purposes , peace
 
Ulter--Once again you speak of things of which you have absolutely no understanding. Worse yet, that fact doesn't keep you from casting dispersions upon another man's character. I guarantee you, a lot of people are having a good laugh now at your expense.

If the "fear factor" you refer to is that if someone follows your lame-brained advice, they will suffer terrible health consequences, then so be it. I can only point out what is well-known knowledge. Such is my commitment as a physician. Or is it that you know more than every doctor on the planet?

Are you Fonz's dad?

You recently tried to post your nonsense about foam cell formation on another Board, and got REAL humble, REAL quick when you were blown out of the water (in about two seconds). You really embarrassed yourself there, and even admitted you didn't know what you were talking about, that you were merely repeating something you thought you read and understood. But that didn't prevent you from trying it again here! Once again, you not only are completely wrong, but you have no problem insulting others who merely point it out--and without making personal attacks on you. That is how adults act, Ulter, you should try it sometime.

If you think that just because some particular protocol SEEMS to work, and does not automatically and immediately cause obvious damage, then you are deluding yourself. Or is it you think that because some particular protocol takes a man to the elite level, it just has to be safe? In that case, watch as many of the champion bodybuilders fail to see their 50th birthdays. And how many have died already? There are those of us who are dedicated to trying to make a difference in this respect, by applying well-known principles of biochemistry, physiology, pharmacology and medicine to new-found research.

And what makes you think I did not experiment with bridging? Once again, you make an absolute statement about something you know nothing about. I should think you would get tired of looking at the inside of your own rectum all the time.

Or do you act this way because you are so frightened and intimidated by new people on the scene who actually know what they are talking about? This is now a thinking man's game, Ulter, as we try to figure out the best way to make gains while minimizing health risks. Either get with the program, or get out of the way.

Yes, I well remember your outrageous and totally unwarranted attacks on me last year. Much the same stuff as here. And even when I well proved both my intentions and the value of my word (by doing exactly what I said I was going to) to the whole world, you still aren't man enough to apologize.

As far as commercial applications, my patients are all pretty darned happy they met me. They are relieved they finally have a physician who understands, and works, for THEM. And if you think I will ever make enough money to justify the 10-15 hours a week I donate to these various Boards, then you are, once again, mistaken. I spend, on average, three hours with each patient. For $150? Do you know any other doctors who work to GROSS $50 per hour? I made more than that moonlighting as an Intern. So you are insulting a physician who has basically made a vow of poverty to get back with his Bro's and try to serve them the best way he knows how. This stuff is not making my $1750 per month student loan payments. It is, however, allowing me to be perhaps the happiest doctor in America, as I am doing EXACTLY what I want to.

...but far be it for you to let mere facts get in the way of your poisoned keyboard.

Now, shall we return this thread to a rational discussion of the topic at hand?
 
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Blown out of the water? Hubble? WTF are you talking about? I was quoting study results I got from a researcher that aren't published yet so we agreed to wait for the results to be published so people could read them.


Those people that are so happy aren't going to be so happy the day the Medical Review Board asks for their medical records and they go down the tube with you.
 
Lest anyone feel sorry for 'Ol Doc, you might be happy to know that I have just come to terms to serve as Chief Clinician for what will be an entire chain of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) clinics. THEN I won't have to worry about making my student loan payments, and serving the Bro's will be more of a hobby.

But how did the owner of these clinics find me? Through these very Message Boards! So, it really does pay to always look to try to help others (just like mom said it would!).
 
DaDawg, If you go back a couple pages you see that that is exactly what I posted. Everyone is different.
I am only asking so I can get an idea what happened with you.
 
ulter said:
DaDawg, If you go back a couple pages you see that that is exactly what I posted. Everyone is different.
I am only asking so I can get an idea what happened with you.
no problem , we came to the board to share and learn from others experiences , peace bro
 
Dadawg--Depending upon your baseline serum T concentration, if it was then at 200ng/dL then you WERE partially suppressed.

Anyone who says otherwise simply does not understand how the body works (and probably should keep their opinions to themself).
 
Oh, so you'd prefer I NOT be around to help the guys. Yes, the bodybuilding community would be much better off if they had one less doctor who knows really knows how to assess them, and will provide them with their ancillaries (but not steroids!). Or do you object to men who really need it getting Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), when they couldn't otherwise?

My patients are at absolutely no risk.

There just isn't any depth too low for you to stoop, is there Ulter?
 
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Dial_tone said:
Actually I don't think my genetics are better than average;

Come on Dial_tone, modesty may be a virtue but that statement is ridiculous. I just took another look at the member picture forum, and in your most recent picture (the one where you are 245#) you look huge, and that was after only three months of serious training. There are many members here, who have been training seriously for a couple of years and have done several cycles. Yet most of them don't look nearly as big as you looked after only three months and a low dose cycle.
 
xtinct said:
WOW! This is really starting to take an ugly turn with two board sponsors going at each other

They both argue in a professional manner and I know they respect each others opinions. Its no big deal.
 
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