Need to get rid of mild gyno.

manletbrah12

New member
What do you guys recommend? Letro?

I got an appointment with my Endo next week, how can I convince him to give me Letro or another AI?

I have high Free T levels, 25 ng/dl and 1100 ng/dl total T. 21 year old, been lifting for 10 months now.

Chest looks real good on some days, while on other days it kinda hangs and looks soft.

Would appreciate some help. Should I get my E2 levels checked out before I do anything? Prolactin was in the upper third range.
 
get your levels checked but there is no reason to talk your endo into anything...letro and other ais are cheap. Check out the board sponsors
 
let's get something very clear... letro or any other Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will NOT get rid of gyno... reduce it, yes... eliminate, no

ai's can reduce it to a very small amount, but it WILL return on future cycles if not controlled with arimidex, aromasin etc...

nolvadex can help to put it back into the dormant state quite quickly at the end of a long cycle or even during if u choose to do it that way... that's how I keep mine under control

only surgery can eliminate it
 
let's get something very clear... letro or any other Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will NOT get rid of gyno... reduce it, yes... eliminate, no

ai's can reduce it to a very small amount, but it WILL return on future cycles if not controlled with arimidex, aromasin etc...

nolvadex can help to put it back into the dormant state quite quickly at the end of a long cycle or even during if u choose to do it that way... that's how I keep mine under control

only surgery can eliminate it

why would you use nolva? All that is doing is keeping the estro from binding to the receptors. This would keep the gyno down but it wont do anything for high estrogen levels. So are you taking nolva and aromasin to keep it dormant? Just trying to understand your theory here
 
get your levels checked but there is no reason to talk your endo into anything...letro and other ais are cheap. Check out the board sponsors

Im in Europe and I kinda feel safer with an Endo because Im afraid of messing up with dosages and what not.
 
Cmon anyone?

So situation

- Haven't used synthetic hormones
- Natural T levels are very high
- Mild/bad gyno on some days, usually work out days.
- Lower/higher bf% still the same
- Need to take something to get rid of it completely
- Don't want surgery, want to try other things first.
 
Hey bro,

First off we need figure out you actually have gyno. Do you have hard lumps under your nipples? That is the key to knowing if you have gyno or not. Second when did you develop it? Teenage years that is pubertal gyno and nolvadex for a few months has been shown to reverse this in some.

Your doctor since you're in Europe may prescribe you nolvadex? Are you in Germany?

If you want more info on chemically reducing gyno click my username and read my thread that is a letro for gyno log.

Anything else I can help you with?
 
Hey bro,

First off we need figure out you actually have gyno. Do you have hard lumps under your nipples? That is the key to knowing if you have gyno or not. Second when did you develop it? Teenage years that is pubertal gyno and nolvadex for a few months has been shown to reverse this in some.

Your doctor since you're in Europe may prescribe you nolvadex? Are you in Germany?

If you want more info on chemically reducing gyno click my username and read my thread that is a letro for gyno log.

Anything else I can help you with?

- Yes I actually have gyno. Something pushes my nipples out. I didnt get gyno until I started working out, my test levels have gone through the roof since... I used to have a body of a 12 year old girl.

- Hmm Nolva? How long should I run that for and what are the pros/cons of it? Im in the Netherlands btw

- Ill check out your log and thanks for the help man :)

Its pubertal gyno pretty sure, I hope Nolva doesnt cause my growth plates to close or something since Im still growing.
 
For pubertal gyno I would get 2 bottles of Nolvadex to start. Run 20mg (1 pill) everyday for a month and see if you notice any changes. If no changes run it at 40mg (2 pills) everyday for another month. If you notice the puffiness and lump going down continue at 40mg until you notice no more changes. Then do a few weeks at 20mg then a weeks at 10mg and come off.

If Nolvadex does nothing for your gyno then I would follow C Bino's "How to get rid of gyno" protocol (Google it, its all over the web)

If neither work then the knife is your only option.

I'm on day 29 of 2.5 mg Letro for one lump that was the size of a quarter. I think it has shrunk and the pain is completely gone.

Although I'm a little worried my Letro is bunk because my little guy still works (morning wood and I've had sex a few times). The sex is different though, hard to explain. Also I haven't noticed any bad joint pain which is suppose to happen at 2.5mg ED of Letro.

Hard to say I guess... I'm just going to run the Letro for 60 days total and then re-evaluate the situation.

Did my thread help?
 
At such a low dose of Nolva I don't think you have to worry about any adverse side effects. If anything weird happens just stop taking it.

Not sure if you received my PM.

But is there a chance of having an estrogen rebound with Nolva?

Also what made you recommend said dosages and that I should run them for X amount of time.

If someone can link me to the "board sponsors" since Im new here
 
At such a low dose of Nolva I don't think you have to worry about any adverse side effects. If anything weird happens just stop taking it.

Why would you recommend Nolva over Letrozole? Letro is what puts gyno in it's place. I've never used Nolva and never will. It has no place in my inventory.
 
- Yes I actually have gyno. Something pushes my nipples out. I didnt get gyno until I started working out, my test levels have gone through the roof since... I used to have a body of a 12 year old girl.

- Hmm Nolva? How long should I run that for and what are the pros/cons of it? Im in the Netherlands btw

- Ill check out your log and thanks for the help man :)

Its pubertal gyno pretty sure, I hope Nolva doesnt cause my growth plates to close or something since Im still growing.

If you truly have something that cannot be reversed that happened during puberty, then perhaps surgery is the best thing for you. Talk to you doctor and find out. I'm not sure how insurance works over there but something like that in the states would be paid for my your insurance since it wasn't something that happened due to you using gear and naturally occurred. In any event, in the meantime, Letrozole is way superior to Nolvadex and if you are going to go to war with gyno, taking nolvadex is like taking a water pistol. Get Letrozole until you can get surgery....if that's even possible. Good luck!
 
Not sure if you received my PM.

But is there a chance of having an estrogen rebound with Nolva?

Also what made you recommend said dosages and that I should run them for X amount of time.

If someone can link me to the "board sponsors" since Im new here

Letro is very powerful so start off at a very low dose. There's a thread out there about gyno reversal using letro. I will find it and post it here.

RUI-Products is a sponsor here and will have everything you need.
 
This was written by C Bino on another forum:

To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:

SERM – Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects .
Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI – Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Letro will be the most powerful Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects .

You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.

If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

How do I know if I have gyno?
If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle . Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone :estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your post cycle therapy (pct) so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular post cycle therapy (pct) .

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle . There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into post cycle therapy (pct) and running this off cycle ? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.
 
This was written by C Bino on another forum:

To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:

SERM – Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects .
Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI – Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Letro will be the most powerful Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects .

You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.

If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

How do I know if I have gyno?
If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle . Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone :estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your post cycle therapy (pct) so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular post cycle therapy (pct) .

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle . There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into post cycle therapy (pct) and running this off cycle ? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.

Overkill dude and not much relevance to this particular guy since he isn't cycling or planning on it. This is way more confusing and probably won't be read by him. There is a lot of useless information he doesn't need.
 
Not sure if you received my PM.

But is there a chance of having an estrogen rebound with Nolva?

Also what made you recommend said dosages and that I should run them for X amount of time.

If someone can link me to the "board sponsors" since Im new here

If it's rebound you're concerned with, you might want to use Aromasin as it's a suicide inhibitor and you'll have no rebound. I think your best bet is to talk to your doctor first though. This happened innocently so you have nothing to hide with your physician. He/she can better advise what's best for you. That's the route I'd go anyway.
 
Hi do u have pics , people would able to help u more with pics

Hey i could post pics but honestly it's not going to change anything. Im not clueless and I have seen thousands pics of people with gyno. I dont have a severe case but its definitely there when my nipples are soft. Also it fluctuates a lot depending on my Test:Estrogen balance..

If you truly have something that cannot be reversed that happened during puberty, then perhaps surgery is the best thing for you. Talk to you doctor and find out. I'm not sure how insurance works over there but something like that in the states would be paid for my your insurance since it wasn't something that happened due to you using gear and naturally occurred. In any event, in the meantime, Letrozole is way superior to Nolvadex and if you are going to go to war with gyno, taking nolvadex is like taking a water pistol. Get Letrozole until you can get surgery....if that's even possible. Good luck!

I hope it can be reversed. If not then surgery is the only way out. But before that I want to try things.


If it's rebound you're concerned with, you might want to use Aromasin as it's a suicide inhibitor and you'll have no rebound. I think your best bet is to talk to your doctor first though. This happened innocently so you have nothing to hide with your physician. He/she can better advise what's best for you. That's the route I'd go anyway.

I'll consult my endo/uro next week. What do you think he would prescribe if anything?

So you would recommend Letro or Aro? Nolva doesn't do much at all? What dosages and for how long are we talking here?

I'm worried about the gyno coming back if I happen to get rid of it. So I need something to prevent that.
 
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