r-ALA can make you FATTER!

[Animalkits]

There was a study which unscrupulous frauds were hiding in their quest to scam the world by filling the sheep only with the virtues of r-ala. Over here we already had our suspicions, but here is the bomb. (Thanks to engi for finding this study for me to dissect and finding the last atomic sentence!

Study site:

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/278/37/34823

I see why!

Pre-adipocytes? Are we really going between pre adipocytes all that frequently?

Now these sentences are likely why the entire study wasn't printed as it ain't so good! Not only via mechanism of ALA, but that they only looked at pre-adipocytes rather than insulin mediated effects on mature adipocytes which obviously aren't blocked.

Recent studies have demonstrated that LA facilitates glucose transport and utilization in fully differentiated adipocytes, as well as in animal models of diabetes (14–16). These insulin-like actions of LA were mainly mediated by activation of IR/Akt signaling pathway.
Considering that insulin stimulates adipogenesis, this study was undertaken to investigate whether LA promotes differentiation of pre-adipocytes to mature adipocytes.

So what is happening is LA is allowing mature fat cells to get bombed with glucose, but not baby ones.

And then there's the bomb!

' In our study, LA at lower concentrations (100 µM) promoted adipogenesis whereas at higher concentrations (250 and 500 µM)it was inhibitory'

If it's promoting it, it's making you FATTER!

Here is the full study.

-Lipoic Acid Inhibits Adipocyte Differentiation by Regulating Pro-adipogenic Transcription Factors via Mitogen-activated Protein Kinase Pathways*
Kyung-Joo Cho , Hae-Eun Moon , Hadi Moini , Lester Packer , Do-Young Yoon ¶ and An-Sik Chung ||

From the Department of Biological Sciences, Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology, Daejeon 305-701, South Korea, Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Toxicology, School of Pharmacy, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California 90089, and ¶Laboratory of Cell Biology, Korea Research Institute of Bioscience and Biotechnology, Daejeon 305-333, South Korea

Received for publication, October 21, 2002 , and in revised form, June 17, 2003.

 

[Deadlift]

So basically if you take higher doses your fine? Is this the same for ala?

 

[LAWNSAVER]

Bump for more info!

 

[TxLonghorn]

And then there's the bomb!

' In our study, LA at lower concentrations (100 µM) promoted adipogenesis whereas at higher concentrations (250 and 500 µM)it was inhibitory'

If it's promoting it, it's making you FATTER!

I gotta bump this for more info...are you saying ALL ala makes you fatter, just r-ala, what is there to do? Should we stop taking ala, or just taking so much of it?

I'm not ashamed to say this leaves me confused, especially with all the other stuff I've read.

Do you suggest/recommend any alternatives?

 

[Batman]

bump

??

 

[Drveejay11]

Re: Re: r-ALA can make you FATTER!

I'm not ashamed to say this leaves me confused, especially with all the other stuff I've read.

you and me both

 

[macro]

100mg of R+ yields apprx 260-270 micromoles/l

the only unscrupulous person here is the one that posted this thread.

as a note- this study would also apply to racemate, which is adipogenic in the sense that it also raises plasma insulin

basically 100mg of R+ is more than sufficient for adipogenic suppression via MaPK

 

[LAWNSAVER]

Come on!! Dont leave us hanging like this.

 

[TxLonghorn]

100mg of R+ yields apprx 260-270 micromoles/l

the only unscrupulous person here is the one that posted this thread.

as a note- this study would also apply to racemate, which is adipogenic in the sense that it also raises plasma insulin

So then if you take 100mg/ala regardless of racemic or r-ala, then you are in the 'zone' inhibiting lipogenesis? If so, that would mean that the ala in the doses we are taking (since most are taking/recommending a gram/day or thereabouts) would contribute to leaning out, right?

 

[macro]

Yes and No with respect to racemate- a higher dose is needed (as it is half s-ala) plus their is greater excretion with mixed isomers.

there is no clear study on the impact of s-ala, it might be none, it might assist and it also might be inhibitory.

finally as ALA can raise plasma insulin, through s-ala activity, it can be adipogenic in that sense.


however at higher doses it is likely that racemate provides some if not most of benefits with respect to MaPK

 

[Animalkits]

I'll let you think about this yourselves unless you want to believe a load of shit from somebody who calls posting a study unscrupulous! HAHA!

You people are so confused by snake oil salesman you can't see or think straight. Look at upon whom most of the studies are done. Hint, it's in a realm where the body works very differently.

Did you ever think of this? If it's making you absorb glucose with less insulin, but into the same cells,

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ALA OR INSULIN MAKING YOU FAT? THEY ARE DOING THE SAME DAMN THING WHICH IS WHY THEY ARE GIVEN TO THE OBESE AND DIABETIC!

It jams glucose into the cells REGARDLESS of the cell type! DUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHH!

Let's see, I get GLUCOSE into my muscle AND FAT CELLS with insulin or with ALA of one type or the other, what's the difference? ALA of either type DOES NOT prefer muscle over fat, so think about it.

 

[Animalkits]

BTW, if you do it WITHOUT insulin after a workout, you also lose the uptake of some aminos which insulin assists!


OOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUCH!

 

[ronmolina]

Hmmmmmmm!

 

[Animalkits]

Oh, but the purveyors of pestulence want you to believe them over their own research! Remember, small amounts CREATES ADIPOGENESIS, but then we have this little exchange where somebody is told a small amount Helps.

HAHA!

I just noticed there is Glucorell-R in my Thermorexin...

but on the website it says there is only 10 mg R-ALA in each cap?

But a regular Glucorell-R cap has 100 mg R-ALA?

Just wondering what is the point of 10 mg or if I should alter my Glucorell-R dosages since I'm on Thermorexin too.

A wizard then tells him...............


the small amount is to help enhance lipolysis and suppress some of the insulin release that is associated with stimulant use.

 

[macro]

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ALA OR INSULIN MAKING YOU FAT? THEY ARE DOING THE SAME DAMN THING.

are you really this dumb?

 

[macro]

Oh, but the purveyors of pestulence want you to believe them over their own research! Remember, small amounts CREATES ADIPOGENESIS, but then we have this little exchange where somebody is told a small amount Helps.

HAHA!

I just noticed there is Glucorell-R in my Thermorexin...

but on the website it says there is only 10 mg R-ALA in each cap?

But a regular Glucorell-R cap has 100 mg R-ALA?

Just wondering what is the point of 10 mg or if I should alter my Glucorell-R dosages since I'm on Thermorexin too.

A wizard then tells him...............


the small amount is to help enhance lipolysis and suppress some of the insulin release that is associated with stimulant use.

once again explained to you in that very thread in simple terms, as most everything has to be.

MaPK is but on factor, suppression of insulin is another-
and considering that its a fatburner (using in a hypocaloric environment- adipogenesis is much less of an issue than insulin suppression of lipolysis)

 

[macro]

BTW, if you do it WITHOUT insulin after a workout, you also lose the uptake of some aminos which insulin assists!


OOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUCH!

once again showing your complete lack of knowledge of human physiology.

FASTING LEVELS of INSULIN are more than sufficient for amino uptake.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

Not sure if 2 "Community Veterans" need to be going at each others throats.

Maybe this could be settled behind the scenes cause i don't see this accomplishing anything.

 

[wutangnomo]

Not sure if 2 "Community Veterans" need to be going at each others throats.

Maybe this could be settled behind the scenes cause i don't see this accomplishing anything.

I disagree bro. The arguments of both these community vets should be for all to see as there is valuable input from both. So long as name-calling is not involved, I want to see what they have to say and how each rebutt the other's counterpoint.

Good thread ... because I just bought some R+ Lipoic Acid, but am yet to use it lol.

 

[DirkMoneyshot]

Your right...that disagreement is a good thing. Name calling not so much. However both of these individuals will come up with something to rebutt each others statements. Thats how both are. Both are smart guys and both will have something to say about the others comment.

I think the point to get across is. Moderation