The "NO FAT GAIN" insulin protocol

[hate]

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/starr/insulin-and-low-carbohydrates.htm


http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/rea/big-fat-bastards-and-insulin.htm


Above are the 2 articles this protocol is based on.

*Carb intake: The first article promotes carb intake at a very low level of 50-100g/day while the second dictates a more strict protocol of no more than .5g per 25 lbs. of bodyweight (for me would be around 4g)

I'm going to begin taking in a small amount of sugary carbs only post workout with the insulin in an effort to keep carb intake to a minimum in order to stick with the original idea of gluconeogenesis. If adjustments need to be made, i will post it.

I am using HUMULIN-R

My stats are 190 lbs. at 7.5% bf

Day One-

NUTRITION

475g protein
60g fat (approx.)
25-30g simple carbs Post workout

INSULIN
3 i.u. early in the day just after breakfast
---9 hrs. later---
4 i.u. post workout along with simple carbs and protein

140 oz. of water

 

[02gixxersix]

This method has always intrigued me but it's not worth the risk IMO. Insulin can be used very safely but this is not the way. You plan on sitting around sipping on protein enriched water all day and it's gonna keep you off the floor? I dont trust it.

 

[hate]

Thanks for the opinion, but to keep this thread as factually relevant and informative as possible could we hold off on the 'i thinks' and 'i feels' ??

Or at least wait till i'm through to start imposing personal preference.

You can always does something novel like start your own thread.

No hard feelings. Thanks.

 

[GymLift]

This forum is about discussion. If you want to post a log, then post it in the "my cycle" forum. In fact, I suggest you do just that. And this thread could be used for discussion of that log.

 

[hate]

That's where i originally posted it, but they moved it to here. I assume because it's not technically a steroid.

perhaps 02gixxer isn't very proficient in written communication. Maybe he meant no imposition at all, but it seemed more of a decleration that my cycle was unmeritted and left him seeming somewhat ignorant to the basis of the cycle, which would leave me with the question "why post here at all?"

I'll make it simple and post the entire thread when i'm finished, then there will be grounds for an actual discussion.

 

[Trevdog]

Maybe I'm not proficient in written communication either but I agree with 02gixxer and *in my opinion* your plan is extremely risky.

I've gone hypoglycemic many times using several times more carbs post injection than you propose. I realize that this plan advances a theory by which you wouldn't need a lot of carbs to avoid hypoglycemia. It still scares me and I don't scare easily.

I hesitate to even leave your thead here because somebody much less experienced might get the wrong ideas/attitudes about the dangers of insulin and end up having a real problem. It appears you've done your homework but please be careful.

 

[FerrariF50]

if people are worried about fat gain that much they should be using humalog instead of humalin. stick to 10g carbs per 1iu slin to start and lower as you go.

 

[GymLift]

I remember reading at least one of those two articles when I was new to this game.

Thank God I didn't follow through and actually try it.

These are essentially protein-only diets. They were a big thing in the 1970s until people started dying .... that's without even using exogenous insulin.

We also now know that protein only diets are fucking stupid for our purposes.

You need glucose. Better to get it from a cheap complex carb than expensive protein.

 

[GymLift]

Anyway, if you go through with this, then please start another new thread in the 'my cycle' forum and hopefully a mod won't move it or, if they do, then maybe we can move it back.

Seriously, I'd be interested in the log.

 

[hate]

The implications of the protocol point to a serious rise in amino acid uptake for muscular hypertrophy. While i agree, this is definately risky, had i not the knowledge of what steps to take and previous experience with insulin, going hypo and getting myself out of the jam by my own know-how I wouldn't have considered this either.

I agree, i'd much rather get my energy from readily available carbs, it's unfortunate i've had to spend the money i did but i suppose you can't argue with chemistry. I should point out 2 things.

1. This cycle will be discontinued after NO MORE than 18 days unless I continue to see substantial results while NOT becoming insulin resistant or experiencing any type of nitrogen toxicity. It will be followed by a 20%c/30%f/50% protein diet.

2. I am only regarding this cycle as a type of 'shotgun' cycle that would be used occasionally, not frequently or for prolonged periods.

NOTE TO ALL NEWBIES

Do not try this protocol. Period. Just watch from a distance, for your own sake. Like trevdog said, i've spent a lot of research time on my ass in front of a computer and with my nose in bio chem books, not to mention a sibling of mine is a bio chemist himself. If you are interested in using insulin, it would be wise to learn ALL you can about traditional methods of use first.

 

[02gixxersix]

Good luck man. I'd invest in a glucose monitor if you don't already have one. Better safe than sorry. Also I would let someone around you know what you're doing, so if you hit the ground they know what to tell the paramedics. I hope I communicated what I was trying to say here properly.......this writing stuff just might not be for me.

 

[hate]

I have, it's the mad scientist of the family that i told, so he knows whats up. Yeah, you didn't do half bad this time in my estimation on the communicating thing lol

 

[Slump]

Very interesting, I'm eager to read about your results. Good luck.

 

[hate]

5 day update

I was going to log the whole experience and then post it up, but i figured i'd keep the thread hot and post a little more often, so here are my 2nd through 5th days for what it's worth-

Day 2

530 grams protein
approx, 40-50 grams fat
15-20 grams sugary carbs

insulin

5 i.u. early day
6 i.u. pwo with carbs and protein

Day 3

575 grams protein
approx. 40-50 grams fat
15-20 grams sugary carbs

insulin

7 i.u early day
7 i.u. pwo with carbs and protein

*At this insulin dosage I began to experience minor hypo with the morning after the first insulin peak, but not in the evening. I suspect the sugar played the determining role in the difference.

Day 4

*This day was shot for a couple of reason irrelevant to the log.

Approx 440 grams protein
Approx 25-30 grams fat
Approx 35 grams of carbs starch and sugar

Insulin

6 i.u. early day
None in the evening

*This day brought another experience of very minor hypoglycemia, as I did not have adequate protein for ample breakdown when I needed it. Today is when I realized a very specific timing regimen will have to be employed to counter the insulin, much more specific than the going rate ‘just eat a bunch right after injection’ Obviously so, but my hypothesis is that not only does a good deal of the amino acids that will be used for conversion into glucose already need to be in the blood, but a very large quantity will need to be taken approx. 15 minutes prior to insulin administration.


Day 5

600 grams protein
Approx 40-50 grams fat
30 grams sugar carbs/glucose tablets

insulin

4 i.u. early day
7 i.u. Evening with 15grams sugary carbs

*Today I experienced a fairly intense hypoglycemic episode, I had glucose tablets on hand which worked like a charm, but it’s times like this that urgency in my mind is awakened and makes me stress to users new to insulin DO NOT begin this protocol on a whim, even in my mind it’s still in the ‘experimental stages’. It’s not just knowing how insulin works, it’s judging what processes are in what stage when you start feeling weird things with your body, and it’s sneaky… many people underestimate ‘the sneakiness’ of insulin, very, very sneaky. I suspect two things brought on the episode.

1. Yesterday’s protein intake was sub par
2. Protein intake after the second shot was ample but I failed to ingest enough protein in a timely manner to counter the second peak, which is around 2 hrs. and the protein I ate only partially did the job, leaving my blood sugar slowly dropping over another hour and half period, which by then, should have already been back to normal.

In order to combat this I am going to have a whole food meal at about an hour after my first shot to see how it compliments the second insulin peak.

Ok so you’ll notice I also backed off of the insulin by 3 i.u. In my morning dose, I did that purely because I wanted to, I wasn’t too keen on feeling the nagging hypo 1 hr. out of bed, I’m taking this slow and evaluating my experience daily.

So far it looks like my upper limit before I really need to start cramming in carbs with the shots is around 7 i.u.

* Lastly i want to correct my weight, the scale that i'm using for this (new scale) had me at 188 and at a 5 lbs. gain in two weeks would still not be an appreciable amount on the scale and should i yield that type of gain without any fatloss, i would have to do 2 cycles to really start noticing a difference in muscularity- not that it's not worth it but i just wanted to edit that fact and leave here early on.

 

[Trevdog]

I expected you would be dealing with hypoglycemia on a daily basis. I think its a bad idea to be flirting with disaster in this regard, even though you know what is happening and how to deal with it.

 

[hate]

Ok i've put a bit of thought into my experience so far and a few things are amuck:

1. I haven't been able to be in the gym as much as i had planned when i started this protocol, which would directly effect the muscular gain. After 5 full days, i weigh 1.5 lbs. less and have noticed a bit more tightness, although muscles look fairly flat. My personal opinion of what is happening is that i've shed a small amount of fat and glycogen stores are obviously being kept to a minimum.

2. My personal limit in the future for this cycle will be 5 i.u. and will be considering humalog to facilitate a greater amount of insulin over smaller portions, i don't feel that 2 shots at this amount per day would yield the results potentially attainable.

3. The protein i got tastes like (i'm assuming) shit water, I will be using a different protein in the future. Period.

4. My carbohydrate intake was, as you know quite low. In future attempts at this protocol, i am going to consider following closer to Oliver Starr's protocol with 50-100 grams of carbs. I'm also going to try compiling some literature of supporting facts of how quickly and at what point the body begins and ceases Gluconeogenesis. This one point is really the key to the 'carb question' "how much is allowed?" Bearing a little more scrutiny on this topic, i would venture to say will allow for a safer cycle, perhaps taking even more guess work out.

So with no further adeau, i regrettably announce that, for the moment i am going to desist of this grave digging insulin cycle and relinquish my 30g needles for some more recon deep within my chem. books and the wonderful internet.

Who am i kidding, i'm still going to do a traditional 3 week insulin cycle and apply some knowledge i've gained from this one to that.

*This won't be the last you hear, i'm just getting started and think this was a pretty far stride for myself and anyone wanting to know the truth about the protocol. As long as this thread is kept open, i'll continue to contribute to the ever controversial method, as well as others.

**For those concerned i must add that the most dangerous portion of the experiment for me is over. I now know how far i can go with the insulin on such low carbs and have actually already established a tweak to the cycle that just may merit it's own expirement (and yes, is surely safer).

***FOR WHATEVER PURPOSE ONE MAY BE CONSIDERING THIS CYCLE, BASED ON MY 5 DAYS OF TINKERING, DON'T. IT WOULD STILL BE A DUMB IDEA.

 

[Aztech]

Glad to see you're done with this.