Tren . What do you guys personally notice/get from it

I agree with Propecia wrecking havoc on the HPTA as it indiscriminately nukes androgens, I don't quite follow on the estradiol being replaced as that's chiefly done via aromatase in men, which fair enough, doesn't require input from the hypothalamus.

I am puzzled though about how trenbolone can replace DHT as they're dissimilar and tren does not convert down that chain. Could you perhaps explain a bit more as to how this occurs for me? I'm totally aware that the body does this; dianabol being an early attempt for TRT comes to mind, but as far as I knew, tren (and nandrolone, both being 19-nors) didn't exhibit that sort of behavior..?
 
Actually Tren has a great study with low dosages showing that it actually had less negative affect on HCT than did testosterone at equivalent dosages yet more positive effect on physical progress and mental well being.

If I recall correctly they were 100-200 mg dosages. So you could speculate and even make an argument to where Tren is safer and more effective for TRT.

That all changes at higher dosages though. I will look for it in a minute, Scally originally posted it.

That also doesn't take into account trying to come off it, and I have seen a LOT of labs of people trying to come off it.
 
Last edited:
THE-DET-OAK said:
Ok for instance check out this guys labs. E2 was 22 which is probably more like 7 on a sensitive. Prolactin non existent. Bet money his DHT was in the dirt:

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...st-tren-normal-blood-results.html#post3550129
Click to expand...
Again we lack labs, although the DHT connection may bear some merit. I hate when folks don't follow up, so we have actual quantifiable values to go by. :(

THE-DET-OAK said:
Same here I bet http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...ile-dysfunction-after-stopped-using-tren.html

Thats why Tren users get ED after coming off, no DHT and blood thicker than red gerogia clay :)
Click to expand...
The problem I have with this one is surmised by my buddy Tron: http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...ion-after-stopped-using-tren.html#post3695571
No blood work makes it difficult at best to make a determination in my opinion, hence my post in that thread asking the poster obtain it. :)


THE-DET-OAK said:
Same issue here I'm sure: http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...check-please-after-test-tren.html#post3665686
Click to expand...

This one had a prolactin level three times over the upper limit combined with subclinical hypothyroidism. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but it would be very helpful if we had something a little more tangible to look at.

I'm not attacking you one iota by the way; I truly enjoy learning, and being able to share that knowledge with others. If there's a link to DHT disruption inducing hypogonadism and/or erectile dysfunction due to tren, I would certainly like to be aware of it. Hope that makes sense. :)
 
halfwit said:
This one had a prolactin level three times over the upper limit combined with subclinical hypothyroidism. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but it would be very helpful if we had something a little more tangible to look at.

I'm not attacking you one iota by the way; I truly enjoy learning, and being able to share that knowledge with others. If there's a link to DHT disruption inducing hypogonadism and/or erectile dysfunction due to tren, I would certainly like to be aware of it. Hope that makes sense. :)
Click to expand...


Sorry I am not taking the time to look up all the labs to find you 3 with low levels in all categories, I find it strange you wouldn't believe me anyway.

Anyway most of the time when studying body builders and their lab work they rarely have complete labs so yea a lot of extrapolation happens.

As per the PRL being elevated that doesn't contradict, these types of things happen for one reason or another. Like the individual reactions and lab work are not always identical.

Besides I know this is what is happening because I have seen the labs not just on the boards but through working with men. You know IMT was the first TRT clinic to start advertising restarts right?

They probably have had at least 50 guys come in with ASIH that had used or abused Tren at one time, or propecia and ALL the labs have the same basic pattern. In truth I didn't even look at the last two thread labs :) I just know thats what the problem is from symptoms.

I am still confused why people think nandrolone and tren are so similar. They act completely different.
 
Last edited:
 
This is what happens when people read an article vs practical application:

Trenbolone and Suppressed Estradiol Production

A second reason is that estradiol levels fall too low when trenbolone is used alone. This occurs because natural testosterone production is suppressed when using trenbolone, and this in turn suppresses natural estradiol production. And since trenbolone itself does not aromatize (convert to estrogen), then there is very little substrate available for aromatization, and estrogen production becomes abnormally low. This can cause joint, mood, and libido problems.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
THE-DET-OAK said:
Hey whats up with these estrogen issues?

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...k-done-what-am-i-doing-wrong.html#post3678110

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...54801-test-e-tren-e-bulk-12wk-blood-work.html

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...uper-high-estradiol-blood-test-mid-cycle.html

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...-estrogen-tren-e-test-e-bloodwork-inside.html

Seriously whats up with all the high estrogen readings when on tren?

Vs when you come off?

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...check-please-after-test-tren.html#post3665686
Click to expand...

If they had the ECLIA estradiol Assay while on Tren, it is just a false positive reading. For whatever reason, ECLIA reads tren as estradiol. Similar to how Nandrolone gives a false positive reading as Total Testosterone. For this reason, we encourage guys on these compounds to run the LC-MS/MS assays. Check with the guys at IMT. I am sure they see this everyday.
 
THE-DET-OAK said:
For whatever reason?



https://experts.umn.edu/en/publications/effects-of-implants-of-trenbolone-acetate-estradiol-or-both-on-muscle-insulinlike-growth-factori-insulinlike-growth-factori-receptor-estrogen-receptoralpha-and-androgen-receptor-messenger-ribonucleic-acid-levels-in-feedlot-steers(49fc805d-e398-4eb7-a774-937c040988cb).html

Would you say Tren is not good at adding muscle or increasing IGF-1 in humans?



So if its just a false positive they should not be making any gains right?
Click to expand...

I don't think you understood what I wrote. Slow down a bit.
 
So I guess what you guys are telling me is even though Tren shows up on lab work as estrogen it wont suppress aromatase? Which is the topic of the current conversation?

So like I said, which is really starting to bother me that people don't understand it, is I see these labs. Not while they are on tren mind you, after. They all have low DHT, estradiol and even prolactin most times. But we are arguing the Tren doesn't mimic these hormones even though it actually shows up on lab work as one of them?
 
Last edited:
If Tren doesn't have an estrogenic affect at the receptor site, why do humans get gains from using trenbolone when cattle need trenbolone and estradiol implants?
 
Another question. If Tren doesn't convert to DHT then why the hair loss? Also knowing that Tren is a 100 times weaker at the progesterone receptor than progesterone itself, is it really even a 19nor?
 
Last edited:
Here is a cool study showing both Tren and DHT are more suppressive than estradiol. This is besides the fact it would obviously suppress DHT conversion and aromatase.

Abstract
Twenty acutely castrated bulls were used to investigate the role of androgenic and oestrogenic steroids in the feedback control of LH secretion. The effects of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) or the growth stimulants trenbolone acetate (TBA) or oestradiol-17 beta (OE2) on serum LH secretory profiles were measured. In addition, pituitary LH responses to exogenous LH releasing hormone (LHRH) were determined to differentiate between hypothalamic and pituitary sites of steroid action. At the time of castration, two groups of animals were given implants of either 45 mg OE2 or 200 mg TBA. Another group received equivalent to 30 mg daily injections of DHT. Control steers showed an increase in LH from 2.4 +/- 0.5 (S.E.M.) micrograms/l to 7.0 +/- 0.5 micrograms/l during the week after castration. Treatment with DHT and TBA prevented the post-castration rise in serum LH. In contrast, steers given implants of OE2 showed a significantly greater increase in LH than controls 1 day after castration, but by day 5 LH declined in the OE2-treated group to precastration values. Five weeks after castration control steers secreted LH in pulses at intervals of 40-50 min and with an amplitude of 4.2 +/- 0.4 micrograms/l. Pulses were not detected in the LH profiles of the steroid-treated steers. Dihydrotestosterone and TBA significantly reduced pituitary LH responses to exogenous LHRH, whereas steers receiving OE2 showed LH responses to LHRH which were similar to those observed in castrated controls. These results support the hypothesis that androgenic and oestrogenic components participate separately in the feedback control of LH secretion in the bull.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)
Click to expand...

Suppression of LH secretion by oestradiol, dihydrotestosterone and trenbolone acetate in the acutely castrated bull. - PubMed - NCBI
 
THE-DET-OAK said:
So I guess what you guys are telling me is even though Tren shows up on lab work as estrogen it wont suppress aromatase? Which is the topic of the current conversation?

So like I said, which is really starting to bother me that people don't understand it, is I see these labs. Not while they are on tren mind you, after. They all have low DHT, estradiol and even prolactin most times. But we are arguing the Tren doesn't mimic these hormones even though it actually shows up on lab work as one of them?
Click to expand...

Geez DET, nobody is coming after you. I had to go eat dinner lol, thankfully Tron's response was what I would have said. The problem with those tests, is that the metabolites interfere with them. There are plenty of drugs that do this too, and require mass spectrometry to distinguish between them (as Tron stated).

My question isn't the aftermath, as this is common to all ASIH, in that gonadotropin production is often lowered - resulting in a poor quality of life. My question isn't whether or not you've been privy to numerous labs and patients; this is a given considering your affiliation with a group that specializes in TRT and wellness.

My question is how this occurs, or by which method of action a specific hormone (trenbolone in this case) inhibits the cleaving of testosterone into DHT. I don't expect you to know all the answers, and if you don't - that's perfectly okay with me. It's another project I can undertake in my free time to dig deeper to try to understand a potential connection.

This was never intended to try to get in a last word, or show whom has the highest IQ, it was intended as an inquiry to see if perhaps you had solid, quantifiable data that could be used to extrapolate a connection between the well-known "bro-science" of 19-nors (it's scary how often it is correct) causing a deeper shut-down of the HPTA and actual facts that we can use to derive a definitive conclusion from.

My .02c :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L
Let's have a tren talk. Not enough discussion going around these days
Replies
1
Views
2K
LateStart
L
O
Babys first cutting cycle (Advice please)
Replies
8
Views
3K
appleton111
appleton111
T
How much test with anavar cycle
Replies
11
Views
2K
casanovaaa
casanovaaa
T
Help with lab results and switching from years of homebrew to presribed test
Replies
5
Views
3K
appleton111
appleton111
B
Cycle Suggestion? Tren Test Mast and.......
Replies
5
Views
3K
scorob777
scorob777
Back
Top