Bulldogs First Cycle (Pinnacle)

Also, this is in regards to an earlier post where you asked about the possibility of increasing insulin sensitivity. This article is shamelessly stolen from that peptide forum (want to give them credit):


The melanocortin agonist melanotan II increases insulin sensitivity in OLETF rats, Ryouichi Banno, Peptides Volume 25, Issue 8, August 2004, Pages 1279-1286


Discussion

In the present study, we examined the effects of the peripheral administration of melanocortin agonist MTII on insulin sensitivity and glucose tolerance in OLETF rats. Our data showed that food intake and body weight were decreased by chronic administration of MTII and that insulin sensitivity as well as glucose tolerance was improved by MTII in those rats. The serum TG levels were also decreased by MTII, and these effects persisted for at least 25 days. Thus, our data demonstrated that melanocortin agonists administered peripherally ameliorated obesity, insulin resistance and hypertriglyceridemia in OLETF rats.

The characteristic features of OLETF are late onset of hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia [21]. The reported levels of fasted plasma insulin in 30***8211;40 weeks aged OLETF were about 3000***8211;5000 pg/ml in general [11,17,19,21,29], although some other reports indicated insulin levels of 700***8211;1000 pg/ml [14,16,39], similar to our study. The reasons for these variations are not clear but could be attributed to the duration of fasting and/or the assay employed. In any case, the insulin levels in OLETF in the present study were about three-fold higher than in LETO rats, as in previous studies [11,21,29]. In addition, plasma glucose levels after glucose tolerance in OLETF were significantly higher than in LETO (Fig. 4A and C). These data demonstrated that the OLETF rats used in the present study are valid as an animal model of insulin resistance.

The effects of MTII on food intake and body weight in OLETF rats are consistent with a previous study showing that peripheral administration of MTII with the mini-pumps reduced food intake and body weight for about a month in rats fed highly palatable food [12]. As it is also shown that body weight started to increase after the guaranteed delivery time of the mini-pumps [12], it is likely that MTII in mini-pumps could retain bioactivity for at least a month. The decrease in body weight seems to be mainly due to a decrease in fat mass, as WATs in the MTII treatment group decreased significantly (Table 1). While both MC3R and MC4R have been implicated in energy homeostasis [25], it is reported that systemic injection of MTII reduced food consumption to a similar extent in both wild-type and MC3R knockout mice [3]. On the other hand, central or systemic administration of MTII had no effects on food intake or body weight in MC4R knockout mice [4,26]. Although MTII has a limited brain penetration capability [41], MC4R is mainly expressed in the central nervous system [30,34]. Thus, it is likely that peripherally administered MTII acted at MC4R in the brain to reduce food intake, although further study is warranted to prove this.

While it is suggested that central melanocorotin pathways regulate insulin sensitivity in the periphery [31], the effects of melanocortin agonists on insulin sensitivity are not consistent between studies [15,33]. The discrepancy could be attributed to differences in the routes for injection, duration of injection and/or animal models employed. In the present study, we administered MTII peripherally to OLETF rats and examined the effects of the chronic administration on insulin sensitivity. Our data clearly demonstrated that insulin sensitivity was improved by MTII administration, which was shown by both ITT and HOMA. The improvement was not simply due to the decrease in food intake or body weight, since there was no such improvement in the pair-fed group in the ITT on day 9. In this regard, Obici et al. [31] showed that central administration of MC4R agonist decreased the visceral fat and increased insulin sensitivity in Sprague***8211;Dawley rats. In our study, while serum TG levels as well as WAT were finally decreased in both MTII and pair-fed groups in the end of the experiment, the serum TG levels on day 9 were dramatically decreased in MTII but not in pair-fed group. As serum TG levels are related with visceral adiposity [22], it is possible that MTII decreased the visceral adiposity independently of food intake, at least in part, and increased the insulin sensitivity in OLETF rats.

Our data showed that plasma insulin levels in GTT were lower in the MTII group than in the ad libitum OLETF group. These results could be attributed to either the inhibitory effects of MTII on insulin release as reported previously [8] and/or the increase in insulin sensitivity. However, it should be noted that, while the insulin sensitivity was improved in the MTII group on day 9, blood glucose levels at 30 min in GTT were significantly higher in the MTII group than in the pair-fed group on day 11 (Fig. 4A). These data suggest the possibility that, although the plasma insulin levels at 60 min in GTT were not significantly different between the MTII and ad libitum OLETF groups on day 11, insulin release before 60 min might be decreased in the MTII group. Nevertheless, glucose tolerance in MTII was improved to the levels of the pair-fed groups on day 23 (Fig. 4C). The improvement could be, at least partially, due to the further increase in insulin sensitivity as HOMA values were significantly lower in the MTII group than in the ad libitum OLETF group only on day 23. Taken together, our data suggest that, while MTII might have inhibitory effects on insulin release, chronic administration of MTII improves glucose tolerance OLETF rats by increasing insulin sensitivity.

While the inhibitory effect of MTII on food intake persisted for at least 25 days in our studies, the effects were most remarkable during the first 4 days, which are consistent with the findings of Jonsson et al. [20]. The relatively short effects of MTII could be due to the downregulation of the melanocortin receptors and the signal transduction as a result of adaptive process [13,24]. Nevertheless, there was not full compensation in food intake, and body weight remained significantly lower for about a month in the present study. These data suggest that melanocortin agonists could well be a promising treatment for obesity in humans. Actually, administration of MSH/ACTH4-10, a MC4R agonist, was shown to decrease body weight and body fat in healthy and normal weight humans without apparent side effects [10].

In conclusion, we demonstrated that peripheral administration of MTII ameliorated insulin resistance, obesity and hypertriglyceridemia in OLETF rats. While further studies with several animal models for insulin resistance are warranted, our data suggest that to explore the possibility of the melanocorotin agonists as a new therapeutic agent for insulin resistance is an important direction for future research​

Kinda interesting in the sense that you were thinking of running both of them for post cycle therapy (pct), too. Hm.
 
Thanks for the slin information. I think I will use it during post cycle therapy (pct) then and perhaps start my next cycle in mid to late november. Interesting about the relationship between igf-1 and slin, I didn't know any of that. I thought igf-1 Lr3 was more site specific so I was thinking 25 mcg's into a specific muscle that might be lagging behind. But I suppose I could alternate use of those compounds to avoid any organ distension because that is literally the last thing I want, I hate that look.
 
Also, this is in regards to an earlier post where you asked about the possibility of increasing insulin sensitivity. This article is shamelessly stolen from that peptide forum (want to give them credit):




Kinda interesting in the sense that you were thinking of running both of them for post cycle therapy (pct), too. Hm.



Dude, that's Awesome! There is now no doubt I will be running both, you just pushed me right over the edge. I'm excited, now I don't have to be out in 105 degree weather to get a tan and I can maximize humalogs anabolic effects. This is a Great day, thanks man.
 
So next week should be your last week on cycle, right? I'll probably be on a week longer than you. Also, I really wanted to get some HMG and test susp to improve the transition to post cycle therapy (pct) but I dunno if I'll be able to find a source that'll have it in time to me for when I want. *I don't think they're necessary but they woulda helped... I'd like to have em for my next cycle though.

Also, re: slin...

What do you think about candy instead of waxy maize as a source of sugars/fast carbs following the slin shot? Seems pretty common in bbing circles.

Also, I remember we talked a while back about macro/caloric intake when running skin. Specifically, if we need to increase calories to account for it's use. I don't think we do. I think it just makes our intake more efficient, as best I understand it.
 
Yeah, I believe I have a week or maybe a week and a half left. I'll pin tonight and gauge my vial total. And what the fuck is Hmg? I've heard you mention it but have no familiarity with it.

I would feel more comfortable with waxy maize only because I don't like to take in sugar, even if it's for a quick bodybuilding purpose. Otherwise something like dextrose might be a good mix or worth looking in to for you. I've heard great things about vitargo but that shit is crazy expensive for what it is so i'll probably roll with the clumped up waxy maize.

I'm glad to hear it because i'd like to keep everything tight up until the next cycle. If I stay lean and trim then perhaps i'll run a winter bulk and finish with a pre-summer cut but we'll see how everything shakes out. I just don't want to get to the point where I am too big, and with the bloat I feel I am pretty much at that point so i'll re-evaluate after seeing what my body looks like after post cycle therapy (pct). Though I should start seeing the bloat come off any day now with the new dosing protocol implemented. In fact, I think I already dropped 4 pounds of water thus far.
 
HMG is mostly used for fertility purposes. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will send out an artificial LH signal to get the body producing test, whereas HMG sends out natural LH as well as FSH signals, to get the body producing test and sperm. Lotsa people report having really easy recoveries on it... it's expensive though.

I also like how the half life is shorter, so you can run it closer to the start of PCT.

But I don't think its necessary seeing as how I consider the cycle I ran very mild. I feel fine, I don't feel suppressed, no sides, nuts are good... yeah. Still woulda been nice to have... but my next cycle will be heavier, so better safe than sorry.
 
Interesting, i'll see if my source can get it and at what price. Do you have a source for it? I know you say it sends out natural signals but is it powerful enough to cause shutdown like say an hcg?
 
Not really sure regarding the suppression part, there seems to be a lot of varying opinion, but for the most part I gather that its something taken on cycle... at least thats the way I'd probably take it.
 
Pr's: Flat bench- 385x3 Incline- 325x8 Decline situps- Two 100 pound dumbbells x12 reps. Not sure I will be attempting the 200 pounds again on the situps, it was more for my ego to see if i could do it. But it certainly made the 45 I use for oblique work feel like a walk in the park. As far as the bench goes, i'm going for 400 next saturday.

It's days like this that make me not want to transition into pct. I want to push it as far as it can go because it is unexplored territory. I'm hoping tomorrow that my back is ready for heavy squats so if my warmup sets go well I will be loading it back up to where I last left off. I did a drop-set the last set of inclines. I loaded 2 plates and 5 10's on each suide and dropped 10 pounds a side per set until I ultimately finished with the 225. The pump was insane! I've never had my chest that pumped up before. I definitely recommend it for anyone seeking a crazy pump and strenuous workout, just make sure you have an experienced spotter.
 
hey bulldog i just ran across this log,and i was wondering what was your starting weight and what is it now? bf% go up or down using npp? if so how much?
 
hey bulldog i just ran across this log,and i was wondering what was your starting weight and what is it now? bf% go up or down using npp? if so how much?

I started around 182 and I am currently in the 196 range, maybe slightly below. I used the NPP for I believe 6 weeks and I gained a pretty quick 10 pounds or so while on it. I imagine alot of that was caused from water retention from the 400mg's of test prop but I felt good on it. There was no joint pain or anything like that so I guess it did the trick. If I were to use again i would definitely up the dose to 400+ mg's weekly.

My bodyfat has gone down the entire cycle. I'm still carrying some bloat but I will be able to better tell in about two weeks. From what i'm seeing though I would imagine I dropped 2-3% throughout this cycle. I feel I am in or around the 10% range. My belief is that you can cut bodyfat on any aas so long as your diet and training are on point.

What cycle are you eyeing next?
 
You should have 400 no problem, why not just try 405 instead? Prettier to look at :)

I'm squatting tomorrow too. Glad you took so much time off lol, it gave me some time to catch up to you! I'm hoping I can do 6p by cycles end but that would require squatting EOD for another two weeks, so we'll see if I can maintain that. Like you said, definitely ease into your heavy squatting with a ton of warmups though...
 
Good point, 405 would be perfect and ultimately is the goal. I will definitely do that, it's only 2 and a half more per side, I should have one good one in me. Yeah, i'm excited about tomorrow. I hope it's ready for action. 6 plates would be sick man, but EOD for two weeks? Yeah i'd say you're going to crush that shit.
 
How's everything been since you started dosing tren higher than test? How long have you been doing that for... and any libido issues? How much bloat has dropped?
 
It's very strange MN, my libido has shot up to its normal levels and today was the first day I noticed some bloat coming off. I look especially tighter in the midsection. I started a week ago so I find it very strange that libido was impacted in such a manner. I felt it would drop off more with less test but that hasn't been my experience. The only other notable change is I am sleeping more. Although it's still interrupted I am getting 8-10 hours whereas before i was surviving off of maybe 6 per night.

So far so good though, it's just interesting how manipulating the doses changes things for me.
 
I got a nice leg workout in today but I stopped myself at 5 plates on the squats. I am definitely stronger then I was as it was very easy for me to reach double digits on all 4 of my working sets. I paused at the bottom for about two seconds just because it felt so damn easy so I pretty much feel as though 6 plates will be easily attained before i am done with 600 being the ultimate goal for the cycle.

For some reason strength gains are coming in at a higher pace then they have all cycle long and i'm not sure what to attribute that to. Can the dosing alteration have an effect that quickly? Seems unlikely but for whatever the reason everything is getting lighter so it makes me want to extend another two weeks. Perhaps it's just the saturation and maybe things really kick in for me at the 8 week mark. I'm thinking my next cycle will have to be a long one.
 
Whatever you think dude, just don't fall into that addictive mindset. That's something we've been trying to avoid from the get-go. Might also be prudent to remember that when you go too hard too long... well, look at my injury.

We've both made some drastic gains this time around... personally I plan on spending a lot of my time in between cycles sticking with the weights I've progressed to and just becoming more proficient with them... i.e. improving form, reps, tendon strength, etc. Building on weaknesses, recouping gains, etc... I'll leave a lot of my balls out lifting to my next cycle.

My next cycle will be a very long one, too.
 
I started around 182 and I am currently in the 196 range, maybe slightly below. I used the NPP for I believe 6 weeks and I gained a pretty quick 10 pounds or so while on it. I imagine alot of that was caused from water retention from the 400mg's of test prop but I felt good on it. There was no joint pain or anything like that so I guess it did the trick. If I were to use again i would definitely up the dose to 400+ mg's weekly.

My bodyfat has gone down the entire cycle. I'm still carrying some bloat but I will be able to better tell in about two weeks. From what i'm seeing though I would imagine I dropped 2-3% throughout this cycle. I feel I am in or around the 10% range. My belief is that you can cut bodyfat on any aas so long as your diet and training are on point.

What cycle are you eyeing next?

im thinking a test/tren A/var cycle, with a cutting diet,but when i use Nan D i get more full and bloated i lose my cut look,thats why i feel like i can cut with npp.......?
 
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im thinking a test/tren A/var cycle, with a cutting diet,but when i use Nan D i get more full and bloated i lose my cut look,thats why i feel like i can cut with npp.......?

You should check out MN's log, he's on those compounds save NPP that you are looking to start. NPP is easier to control because it is a much faster ester but nandrolone is nandrolone so the effects will be the same. The only difference will be that you can adjust dosing protocol if you develop too much bloat to keep it to a minimum and you won't have to wait 4 weeks to tell the difference as you would on the longer ester. I prefer shorter esters personally for this exact reason. Being able to adjust on the fly is a major advantage especially if your body isn't reacting favorably.

With that said, depending on your test dose I would still expect bloat on this cycle to some degree. What is your proposed dosing strategy?
 
Whatever you think dude, just don't fall into that addictive mindset. That's something we've been trying to avoid from the get-go. Might also be prudent to remember that when you go too hard too long... well, look at my injury.

We've both made some drastic gains this time around... personally I plan on spending a lot of my time in between cycles sticking with the weights I've progressed to and just becoming more proficient with them... i.e. improving form, reps, tendon strength, etc. Building on weaknesses, recouping gains, etc... I'll leave a lot of my balls out lifting to my next cycle.

My next cycle will be a very long one, too.


I have it under control, I definitely will remain level-headed and I understand the importance of restoring my body to homeostasis as it strives for. I just hate to leave strength gains on the table if they are there to be had in the next 4 weeks. But i'll view it as a lesson learned and ensure to have a much longer cycle next time around. I'll probably start out using the same compounds that you used for this cycle and add some peptides to go along with it. I'm curious about the Anavar (var) and its cramping effects. I don't want it to prohibit my workouts in any way. Has that happened to you at all where the pumps turn into a cramp and you can't complete the workout on that muscle?
 
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