Irentat's Joint Repair and Rebuilding Cycle

[Epic Ed]

Glad someone is reading this...

You know I am, bro. Good to hear your progress continues. It will be interesting to see how much benefit you retain after cycling off the deca. I was disappointed at the end of 8 weeks off. But -- you're doing different stuff in conjunction with the deca that I wasn't, so your outcome may be entirely different.

It's peptides for me after this current cycle thanks in large part to your insight. Keep posting the updates.

 

[Irentat]

Brett,

Appreciate the comments. Sorry you know nothing of my prior research but will comment on what you indicated.

I think you need to do some more research on supplements. The ones you have are great, but you can add some more that I personally know will really help.

MSM, Glucosamine, Chondrotin, and Cissus are all great for damaged joints and they all naturally reduce inflammation which aids in healing as you well know.

All above you mentioned have been tried with different manufacturers and different intake levels with no success. Futher, research has not indicated they are very successful. If they are for you, great but not for me.

Essentially it comes down to acknowledging what quantity can make it to the joint with oral supplements. The reality is direct injection proves to be a greater benefit. I have research direct injection of glucosamin/condroitin but I go back to my nutrient solution protocol (some posts back in this thread) because the amino acid/dextrose makeups are the same.

Also enzymes. Nattokinase and Serrapeptase especially can drastically reduce inflammation which can lead to healing and less pain. They also inhibit scar tissue formation and increase collagen formation. Both of which you need. Quercetin and other enzymes do wonders as well.

I personally have not tried Cissus, but the rest I have tried and they all work.

I have a really bad problem with inflammation, blood pooling, and lack of natural scar tissue rebuilding enzymes. I was born with it. I could go into scientific detail about it, but short story like you I tried a ton of doctors and they all said nothing could be done.

Now (along w/ HGH or GHRP/GRHR) I take natural anti-inflammatory medicine and enzymes like Nattokinase and Serrapeptase which inhibit excess scar tissue formation and can actually break down scar tissue. Scar tissue will always be there, but with collagen synthesis the scar tissue can become less pronounced and more flexible and nerves can start to work better again as well as small blood vessels.

I am a big fan of Serrapeptase. Took it for a year after my surgery. It helped tremendously but after that year, the benefits went away because I was healing. I should look at starting back up, especially if I go through with this final surgery.

Another thing to try is DMSO. I LOVE IT. It has great anti-inflammatory and free radical fighting properties, but it also allows certain vitamins and nutrients to pass through the skin.

So you put DMSO on your ankles and put the Vitamin E or whatever directly onto you ankles and it is almost like injecting it in there. That way it doesn't get wasted systemically in other locations....more gets used where you need it. I use this for old bad scar tissue spots and it decreases the amount of time to "rework" the scars.

ALSO YOU CAN INJECT DMSO! It increases the absorption of whatever else you inject with it. So I would research it a bit and start injecting whatever is recommended of DMSO and HGH or DMSO and Test or DMSO and the Vitamin C/dextrose solution or whatever.

DMSO lets stuff pass through your skin VERY readily, but it also helps absorption inside your body as well. This is in addition to it's own healing properties.

I swear by it. Just try it or at least research it. It's cheap too.

The only time I tried DMSO, my skin broke out in a rash that lasted 3 weeks. I will not try again until someone can tell me how to keep this from happening.

Another thing I am experimenting with now is pulsating 670nm wavelength light which can penetrate the skin and promote healing.

Yes done this also with some benefit but not enough to go down the path of buying a $1000+ piece of machinery to recreate what I gained at the doctor's office.

I realize our situations are different and I wish you all the best, but I know what it is like to be told there is no solution to your problems only to find out through my own research there was.

I am sure you have researched a ton on your own, but check some of these things out if you haven't already or take another look.


I hope things go well for you.

 

[BrettFavor]

What mixture of DMSO did you use?

They have 70/30 mixtures of DMSO and Aloe Vera. This will eliminate the skin irritation.

You must have very sensitive skin. I get skin irritation sometimes, but its only after I have used too much or used it too many days in a row and even then it was a very light irritation that went away within a day.

Switching to Aloe Vera mix or diluting it with distilled water will get rid of that though. Or better yet research injections.


Some people say it can cure everything from arthritis to cancer itself. I don't know about all that, but I KNOW for a fact it reduces inflammation and fights free radicals on its own. I also know it lets you absorb things through the skin and if you inject it makes any tissue it comes into contact with(your cartilage) more readily absorb anything you inject with it. You can even IV this stuff. There is a doctor who treats all kinds of shit like that.



I mentioned the enzymes b/c everytime you inject into your ankle with a 23 gauge needle you are creating more and more scar tissue. Those enzymes specifically nattokinase and serrapeptase will help limit that.


Sorry those others haven't worked for you.

MSM does work for me. The rest are iffy, but I think they have benefits as small as they may be.

Also with the amount of Vitamin C you are taking have you thought of upping your Vitamin E?

I find when I take over 3 grams of Vitamin C I find benefit in upping my Vitamin E to 800-1200mg.

 

[Irentat]

Brett,

No idea on the DMSO since it was years ago but I will dig into it a bit now. Always need to keep researching new ideas.

Thanks for the reminder that those 23 guage can be nasty, time to order some more serrapeptase.

I don't think i will up my E. Research I have read seems to like limiting it to 800mg and not taking high levels for extended periods of time. I now take 400-600 mg.

 

[BrettFavor]

You are right about the Vitamin E....anything over 400mg can be bad for your joints UNLESS you are taking large amounts of Vitamin C. Vitamin C seems to balance out the negatives with higher Vitamin E dosages so you can focus on the benefits.


Also there are like 4-5 different types of Vitamin E and some spectrum's of Vitamin E work better for certain things than others so you might want to look into which spectrum you are taking and if that benefits your particular ailment.


That is if you haven't already. You seem to have researched plenty and know what you are doing. Just trying to add where I can.

 

[BrettFavor]

Irentat,


Have you seen any research linking HGH injections directly into scar tissue that would reduce the scar tissue or "rework" the scar tissue by replacing the scar tissue with more collagen and making the scar tissue more flexible?

 

[Irentat]

Irentat,


Have you seen any research linking HGH injections directly into scar tissue that would reduce the scar tissue or "rework" the scar tissue by replacing the scar tissue with more collagen and making the scar tissue more flexible?

Nothing at all. Do you know of any? If you do, please post.

 

[Irentat]

You are right about the Vitamin E....anything over 400mg can be bad for your joints UNLESS you are taking large amounts of Vitamin C. Vitamin C seems to balance out the negatives with higher Vitamin E dosages so you can focus on the benefits.


Also there are like 4-5 different types of Vitamin E and some spectrum's of Vitamin E work better for certain things than others so you might want to look into which spectrum you are taking and if that benefits your particular ailment.


That is if you haven't already. You seem to have researched plenty and know what you are doing. Just trying to add where I can.

Oral OTC supplements for me are real simple: they barely impact my situation. There are few oral OTC supplements I would consider very beneficial. Overall, I have found they are less than adequate for my situation. Others may not feel the same.

AAS and sub q injectables I am taking are a completely different story...

 

[BrettFavor]

Nothing at all. Do you know of any? If you do, please post.

No I don't. I did some searching I couldn't find anything conclusive. I am VERY interested in it for me.

I have just started injecting caster oil, DMSO, and lemon juice into old large scars and I have seen decent results. I am thinking of adding some HGH to the mix, but I tried it once and it hurt like hell so I don't want to do it again unless there at least some hint of a benefit.

 

[Irentat]

Another update.

After 2 weeks from last injection, started PCT a few days ago with Clomid. Very glad I did. I was coming down and listless. I am back to my old self again and not lost any weight yet. Not really motivated at the gym however and only going 2-3 times per week.

Good news: well over 2 weeks after last Deca injection and my ankle pain has not come back. I doubt it will come back to the level it was before. My joint injections along with sub q peptides probably did the trick of getting them feeling good beyond the Deca. Still maintaining joint injections but have decided to focus exclusively on testosterone suspension for now. GH not going to be used. Even with sterile water, I am getting reactions in my ankles with GH and just tired of it. Test suspension seems to work in building the cartilage faster anyway. GH was needed to get the cartilage and the test is needed, I think to truly build it faster than GH can do.

Give my ankles a solid 3.5 out of 10 on my scale. My goal was a 3 in 6 months. Damn close and happy with what I achieved.

Regarding my surgery, I probably will not go through with it. This is the first time in years I have not limped and I dread the thought of being on crutches for many weeks and limping for another many months. That part of my recovery may have to wait for another 6-12 months.

 

[leanbody]

Hey Irentat - great Thread! read the whole thing - amazing story. I am eager to hear how your PCT goes. Just Clomid? no nolva? And I must have missed this, but you do the ankle injections yourself? how did you figure it out? Was it the doc in Florida?

Good luck broski - very inspiring!

 

[Irentat]

Hey Irentat - great Thread! read the whole thing - amazing story. I am eager to hear how your post cycle therapy (pct) goes. Just Clomid? no nolva? And I must have missed this, but you do the ankle injections yourself? how did you figure it out? Was it the doc in Florida?

Good luck broski - very inspiring!

Lean,

Thanks for the read.

I too am eager to see how my post cycle therapy (pct) does. Yes only Clomid. So far, weight is maintained after 3 weeks from last pin as well as all strength. I don't recover like I used to on AAS but not surprised.

I learned to do injections mainly from my local Prolotherapist. I was a real regular with that guy and he has probably put 300 pins into me over the last 2 years. Just figured out the joint struture and from there, I was able to hit the capsule every time.

 

[leanbody]

Lean,

Thanks for the read.

I too am eager to see how my PCT does. Yes only Clomid. So far, weight is maintained after 3 weeks from last pin as well as all strength. I don't recover like I used to on AAS but not surprised.

I learned to do injections mainly from my local Prolotherapist. I was a real regular with that guy and he has probably put 300 pins into me over the last 2 years. Just figured out the joint struture and from there, I was able to hit the capsule every time.

Wow that's awesome you learned it. But I guess you've seen it a lot with over 300 pins... Great to see that you are making progress - must be HUGE for you! Good luck with the post cycle therapy (pct). BTW - ever think about adding HCG?

 

[Irentat]

Wow that's awesome you learned it. But I guess you've seen it a lot with over 300 pins... Great to see that you are making progress - must be HUGE for you! Good luck with the post cycle therapy (pct). BTW - ever think about adding HCG?

Did Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) from 8 week on until last pin. Liked it. I have heard conflicting opinions on using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during PCT but makes sense to do so up until 1 week prior to going off PCT.

What you think?

 

[leanbody]

Did Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) from 8 week on until last pin. Liked it. I have heard conflicting opinions on using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during post cycle therapy (pct) but makes sense to do so up until 1 week prior to going off post cycle therapy (pct).

What you think?

I'm with you on that one - I've been told both, but the more convincing argument is to do it during cycle and not on post cycle therapy (pct) imo. For me it's mostly that I don't want my balls to shrink up to nothing. im on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for the rest of my life so the boys are retired in the test production venue. My last post cycle natty test numbers were 275 and recently 165 so that indicats to me that they have pretty much become couch potatoes! Too bad that the docs won't give me a script for the good stuff - only patches which really are ineffective.

i am looking forward to starting a new cycle this weekend and have high hopes that the knee ache will go away.

 

[Irentat]

Short update:

Starting my 3rd week of post cycle therapy (pct). Everything is fine in that department. Weight only down a few pounds. Gym work has been erratic however.

4 weeks since last pin and knowing the 1/2 life of Deca is about a week, pretty much it should all be out of me by now. Ankle pain is more erratic now. Pain level is anywhere from 4-4.5 on my scale so it is up some from when I posted last 2 weeks ago. This is not nearly as bad as before starting the cycle so very happy. Still no back pain returning even with heavy lifts being done.

 

[leanbody]

sounds like you are doing well w/ post cycle therapy (pct). as long as you keep the diet clean you shouldn't lose too much weight. For me it was mostly water - I love those Lawry's seasonings on meat and chicken - FULL of sodium! hahaha

 

[Wrangler06]

I just read this whole thread and found it extremely interesting! I see it's been a while since your last post, hope things are going well and look forward to the next post.

oops. nvm. i just got done reading page 1! on to page 2

 

[Irentat]

Update:

Pre-cycle: 178lb, 15% BF
Post-cycle: 185lb, 12% BF

Into my 5th and last week of post cycle therapy (pct). Clomid went: 50/35/35/20/20. Down about 8 lb from where I was at the end of my cycle. Weightlifting consistency still erratic and strength down a bit. I will be checking my test levels sometime in December.

Joints are doing extremely well. Ankles are doing better than last post but no idea why. The only new issue is my back is sometimes bothering me slightly after lifting but nothing major and it goes away after a day. My back is absolutely nothing like it was before the cycle when I could spasm at any time and feel pain for days when lifting...and not very hard.

Still taking GH peptides as I have been consistently since May but not done joint injections for a month. Just wanted to lay off. Going to start back up again on test suspenion in the joint. It seems to make the most difference and it does not impact serum test levels so not worried about it impacting my PCT.

 

[Irentat]

Stopped Clomid PCT 4-1/2 week after starting. It took 2 days but the boys shrunk up and energy level went WAAAY down. Started back upon 35mg ED of Clomid and I feel much better by the 3rd day. First time in 2 weeks I had a strong lifting session.

I will try to get off of PCT this week and see what happens. Once I stabilize, I will get blood work done.

Joints still feel pretty damn good. No changes here.