Cycling Beastdrol?

Crazy cause ive talked to DJM and he's never pushed any primordial products on me. But everyone else keeps pushing need2 products. Personally i would not take otc unless i was doing a hema or weak ph cycle. Not saying the products dont work just saying i want to stay safe with tried and trusted.
 
Awesome explaination GorillaGlue thanks alot. I was planning on using the Forma-stanzol as an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) with Beastdrol and carrying it through the post cycle therapy (pct) (Torem). Is that going wreck my E2 levels? It's insane how much you guys know about all this.. I feel like I'm talking to bio-molecular engineers or something lol.
 
Crazy cause ive talked to DJM and he's never pushed any primordial products on me. But everyone else keeps pushing need2 products. Personally i would not take otc unless i was doing a hema or weak ph cycle. Not saying the products dont work just saying i want to stay safe with tried and trusted.

x2.

My personal stance is that you can add some OTC stuff to your PCT if you wish (call them adjuncts), and they may help/not help/make things worse/etc, but the core of PCT is still SERMs. I'm not in love with SERMs, and they have their own side effects, but they are tried and true, so I stick with them.
 
Awesome explaination GorillaGlue thanks alot. I was planning on using the Forma-stanzol as an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) with Beastdrol and carrying it through the PCT (Torem). Is that going wreck my E2 levels? It's insane how much you guys know about all this.. I feel like I'm talking to bio-molecular engineers or something lol.

You don't need the Forma-stanzol on cycle. Your E2 should be pretty low on cycle using Beastdrol/Superdrol, so adding an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) could definitely crash your E2.

I think you could use Forma-stanzol post cycle with your toremifene and not crash your E2. You could also use 1/2 the recommended dose of forma to be safe as well. You could also wait 2 weeks into your PCT and then introduce the forma and run for 3-4 weeks. I've never done any of these variations, but I've seen them done by others. So I can't really recommend one over the other; it is kind of up to you.

Maybe someone from NTBM can chime in with suggestions since this is their product. Obviously, most supp companies want you to use as many and much of their products as possible (e.g., running forma-stanzol from the start of the cycle through PCT; I would do PCT only IF that; definitely NOT on cycle without a very good explanation as to why it would do more good than harm; it won't IMO).

When I speak of forma-stanzol, I know it contains more than formestane, but formestane is the chief ingredient to use carefully; the other ingredients may be of added benefit (I've never used the product, so I don't really know), but those other ingredients are less of a concern than the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (formestane) b/c they aren't as strong in their anti-estrogenic effects.

Honestly, I would still consider running something like PP's AndroHard or LG's MMV2 or CEL's Stano-Drol on cycle with the Beastdrol. It's true that Beastdrol is a DHT derivative, but that doesn't mean it is a strong androgen. In fact, it is a very weak androgen. It is also highly suppressive to HPTA function, so that will combine with the low androgenicity of Beastdrol to result in a jilted androgen:estrogen ratio and put you at risk of gyno on cycle. When your HPTA is shutdown as it will be very quickly on Beastdrol, your body will produce very little test and in turn very little DHT. All of the products I mentioned above are DHT prohormones and will help keep the andro:estro ratio in check on cycle. They might even help with the lethargy too.

So I would probably suggest the following:

On Cycle:
-Beastdrol
-DHT Prohormone (MMV2, AndroHard, Stano-drol)
-TUDCA/Liver Longer (for strong liver protection)

Post Cycle:
-Toremifene
-Optionally include Forma-stanzol at 1/2 the rec dose or at the full dose (a judgment call here and as I said, perhaps someone from NTBM can chime in with a reasonable suggestion)
 
You don't need the Forma-stanzol on cycle. Your E2 should be pretty low on cycle using Beastdrol/Superdrol, so adding an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) could definitely crash your E2.

I think you could use Forma-stanzol post cycle with your toremifene and not crash your E2. You could also use 1/2 the recommended dose of forma to be safe as well. You could also wait 2 weeks into your PCT and then introduce the forma and run for 3-4 weeks. I've never done any of these variations, but I've seen them done by others. So I can't really recommend one over the other; it is kind of up to you.

Maybe someone from NTBM can chime in with suggestions since this is their product. Obviously, most supp companies want you to use as many and much of their products as possible (e.g., running forma-stanzol from the start of the cycle through PCT; I would do PCT only IF that; definitely NOT on cycle without a very good explanation as to why it would do more good than harm; it won't IMO).

When I speak of forma-stanzol, I know it contains more than formestane, but formestane is the chief ingredient to use carefully; the other ingredients may be of added benefit (I've never used the product, so I don't really know), but those other ingredients are less of a concern than the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (formestane) b/c they aren't as strong in their anti-estrogenic effects.

Honestly, I would still consider running something like PP's AndroHard or LG's MMV2 or CEL's Stano-Drol on cycle with the Beastdrol. It's true that Beastdrol is a DHT derivative, but that doesn't mean it is a strong androgen. In fact, it is a very weak androgen. It is also highly suppressive to HPTA function, so that will combine with the low androgenicity of Beastdrol to result in a jilted androgen:estrogen ratio and put you at risk of gyno on cycle. When your HPTA is shutdown as it will be very quickly on Beastdrol, your body will produce very little test and in turn very little DHT. All of the products I mentioned above are DHT prohormones and will help keep the andro:estro ratio in check on cycle. They might even help with the lethargy too.

So I would probably suggest the following:

On Cycle:
-Beastdrol
-DHT Prohormone (MMV2, AndroHard, Stano-drol)
-TUDCA/Liver Longer (for strong liver protection)

Post Cycle:
-Toremifene
-Optionally include Forma-stanzol at 1/2 the rec dose or at the full dose (a judgment call here and as I said, perhaps someone from NTBM can chime in with a reasonable suggestion)

^^^this was pretty much exactly what i suggested in my original post,#11, before all hell broke loose
 
So RUI's Torem is STILL out of stock but I checked out StenLabs and they have it in stock. Anyone ever use Stenlabs' Torem?
 
So RUI's Torem is STILL out of stock but I checked out StenLabs and they have it in stock. Anyone ever use Stenlabs' Torem?

rui
iron-dragon
research stop

all been good for me, well rui im hoping, ill be in post cycle therapy (pct) in 2wks
 
Your supporting supps should include Need2Guard, Krill oil, beta-glucans
PCT:
Toremiphene: 90/60/60/30/30
HCGenerate 5 caps a day
PhytoSerms 347 2 caps (1am/1pm)
Formastanozol 3 pumps am and 3 pm and then taper to 3 pumps am or pm
TestForce 2 at 4 scoops for the first 5 days, then 2 scoops throughout the pct

Krill that shit!!!!
 
djm6464 using Aromisin and nolva/clomid is fine and yes its be the same concept on this we are both in agreement. Yes the product is going to be killed ( by the pricks with nothing better to do) real soon ad that because it works. YOu and I both know for a fact the FDA/ government goes after what works lol... As history has proven. So we can both agree that the product works,its the same concept as using serms+SAI. Also that the fda blows donkey dick.

Now what I took into consideration is the fact that we are on the "pro hormone otc legal steroids forum" and more often then not the person running the cycle wants to keep everything he is using on the legal side of things. If this is the case ( and most often it is) then I think we can both agree ( again) that forma-stanzol along with other supporting supplements would be the best way to go..

Now another factor to taking into consideration is 1 bottle of forma-stanzol is enough for 2 complete 4 week pct's that covers both SAI and serm like effects.

1 bottle of forma-stanzol 49.99- 10% needto10 discount code=44.50 ( about) shipping is free 3 days to your door. No legal trouble no worries.

Avg price of Nolva and Aromasin from the other places.
Exemestane sold as Aromasin and Tamoxifen/nolva bought from any of the other sites and in the lowest amounts you can buy. Totals calculated with shipping cost added

Iron-dragon= 112.00
RUI=142.35
research stop= 133.25

Price for getting a legal working product over a e-legal get sent to jail drug? Priceless!!!
You do the Math.


Now onto you trying to paint the picture that I was the aggressor in or conversation.
Or coversation was fine and I was 100% respectful and only stating my case all the way up to post 54. In my long reply to you I did not call you any names,attack you in any way, or do anything wrong other then simple state my facts.

Your reply to me was unarguable aggressive, accusing, confrontational and some what belittling. With comments like

"first off im not your bro, i reserve that for my friends"
"you really didnt need to impress me with the ridiculously long sales pitch"
"which you amazingly failed to mention in your writeup"
"which is hard to find when it relates to need2, considering your companies marketing style"

Then even psters after you saw this as a flam and labeld it as such
:flame:
:shoot7:
:whipping:
:rockband:
:crying:

Then you came back again with more accusations,belittling in post 59.



You clearly took it to the confrontational level and lets not hide behind " I was being sarcastic"... At least be a man and own it. As I can own the fact that I took it to the next level after you did. Something I do not do often but with as many post, and as many years in this industry as I have I am bound to have it happen. You cant be happy go lucky all day every day ( and I do this all day every day)..


Regardless of what you are man enough to admit I will apologize for getting a little heated but most of what I said still stands other then the rudeness in my tone. Now I will just go back and correct some mistakes a see in this thread and get back to helping people as always..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aries321 View Post
Thanks everyone for your help. Man, it seems like a barrel of pills for just a few pounds of muscle, hope I get it right!



Your reply.

those 2 compounds will be very suppressive together, you may want to add a dht/test based ph to help you out with the lethargy and other sides as such.....maybe pp androhard or 4ad (just dbl dose it)

pct wise i think you are right its alot of pills, and imo not needed....toremifene is fine, and then maybe a natty test booster like bioforge in wk3 (optional)

dose the torem like this
day 1-3 120mg
day 4-7 90mg
wk2/3 60mg
wk 4 30mg

you should be better off this way

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am assuming when you say "those 2 compounds will be very suppressive"
the two compounds you are talking about are beastdrol and katanadrol sense these are the only two compounds mentioned in the previous post as the potential compounds to be run in the cycle.

Now I know you do not need anyone to explain anything to you ( and please please forgive me for doing so) but when you said

"you may want to add a dht/test based ph to help you out with the lethargy and other sides as such"

I am sure you already knew that not one but both beastdrol and katanadrol are dht derivatives. So although I commend your product placement of the DHT pro-hormone Androhard . which as shown in the PP write up is ( in simple terms) nothing more then a much much much much weaker form of the to former products beastdrol and katanadrol.. I just feel its important to address this fact to others who may need to have this explained for them ( not you though I know you don't need this help)


Again I am sorry for correcting this good man. I have done so in the most respectful manner I could though so I hope this is cool. :beertoast
 
Lowering SHBG on a Superdrol clone cycle?
First good Sr.Original Superdrol.
Not togive links to other forums but you can find good info in this thread about the first Original superdrol.


Let's see what might result:

1-Increased circulating/unbound androgens (test, superdrol, etc). Though to be honest, Superdrol has pretty good binding affinity for SHBG, and many a people have run SD without an SHBG lowering compound and have had great results. So I wonder, what is the added value here? Total test levels on a cycle of properly dosed Supedrol are going to be in the sub-100ng/dl range, so I'm not sure what it matters that more of 50ng/dl of total test is present in the free/circulating state.

You are correct in the fact that Superdrol is already going to lower shbg a lot. And truthfully the hcgenerate is not going to lower it that much more. However out of repetitiveness ( and how it helps other cycles) I placed this attribute on the list.


2-Increased free estrogen. I didn't see this one on the list above. Kind of a gyno concern IMO when running a weakly androgenic and strongly suppressive compound like SD. Any benefit from more circulating SD might well be mitigated by this effect. Androgen/estrogen ratio won't be pretty; Santa might bring you a pair of tits for Christmas (or not; depends on if you've been naughty or nice).

superdrol is non aromatizable all literature to date gives it 0 estrogenic activity and like all dht derivatives some what anti estrogenic even if only slightly less then its injectable counterpart "masteron" . Which its Original conception was for battling estrogen dependent breast cancers. Moreover its estrogen reducing effects are time tested and evident in the feed back of every single user to come in contact with the drug. Albeit not so impressive looking for reducing estrogen in some literature, documented use and feed back supersedes. So although a somewhat impressive attempt your argument lacks real world evident reports to back up your "Theoretical" analysis




3-Decreased SHBG (of course). SHBG seems to have a protective effect against gyno. This doesn't disagree with the fact that SERMs like tamoxifen raise SHBG. Bound estrogen can't make your nipples itch.

slightly or even drastically raising/lowering SHBG during a cycle in which estrogen is already reduced (real world evident feed back as well as literary backing for all dht dirivatives) Is not going to have a profound effect if any effect at all on gyno..

Aromasin is well known to "lower" shbg. Your explanation would be the equivalent of telling some one that Aromasin is going to cause them gyno problems if use during a cycle or post cycle therapy (pct). Although to a lesser degree the same definitive results would apply.



Superdrol also inhibits 11b-hydroxylase, so gyno risk up.

HCGenerate has testofen in it too, right? Last time I ran a testofen product, my libido was sky high, and about 5 weeks later, my nipple started to itch and burn. I still have issues today, almost a year later, and I've read of others having similar issues (not necessarily the norm), but again, I would be cautious in stacking too many potential gyno contributors in a stack/cycle such as this.

So what you are trying to say is that primordialperformance.com product Phyto-Testosterone product which is basically high dosed testofen in nothing more then pure speed bags for tits in a pretty bottle??? The company you work for makes the statement in there product write up that there product

"Is a completely legal, natural and scientifically proven complex that supports lean muscle growth, rather than breast growth. testofen is truly man's best friend."
and even go on to say it stakes great with Dermacrine a "much more anabolic then anadrolic" compound/supplement..

But??? But how can this be?? Well what ever lets scroll down the the part where they write Testofen™ mimics the effects of testosterone " at the androgen receptor" much like sarms. All done with and I quote "with out the detrimental side effects typically related to the use of anabolic steroids. Such as GYNO!!!"

But lets move into the next statements you have made and address them together now.


I would want to do everything possible to lower my gyno risk, like combining Superdrol/beastdrol/whateverdrol with a stronger androgen such as DHT or a precursor (some are still legal, take your pick), Testosterone, etc.

Will address the testofen and the "stack it with a dht derivative" mistakes once again, and together here.

Both beastdrol and katanadrol are dht derived "steroids" . Again I commend your counterpart for His product placement and now you for you're subtle attempt yet obvious product placement back up.
Its still wrong because why are you going to tell some one to use a dht pro hormone as a additive to the cycle for any reason what so ever? Both steroids in question have much stronger dht action.


Now with almost all oral cycles the one thing most people want to try and do is add "testosterone" like effects to the cycle some how. Much like how all over every forum across the net you see people saying "test base! Test base! Cycle should always have a test base!" one would want to try and create this with a oral cycle for many reasons. I think this is more where you would be wanting to go with what you were saying but maybe just getting a little confused. Considering again that both steroids in question are dht's..

Now as we can see hcgenerate "product as a whole" is going to raise testosterone,raise free test,act a mimic testosterone at the androgen receptor, as well as raise sex hormone receptors and sex drive like testosterone would during a cycle.





OP, I would suggest running whatever OTC stuff you want for your post cycle therapy (pct) (actually, I wouldn't take any of that recommended OTC post cycle therapy (pct) crap above, but that's just me). Just don't forget some toremifene or clomid;).

Good luck with your cycle.

To end, Again I would have to say its a great set of theories and hypothesis however everything you have said 100% lacks evident definitive reported user result feed back. Even with what little literary supporting documents you could find ( yet did not post) your 2+2 don't= the real world 4 good Sir.

No one ( maybe 1 in its history) has reported gyno of any kind for hcgenerate nor have the reported it from using phyto-test from pp ( which is a good product btw). No one has reported a 3,4-divanel product to do this in any way ether. :dunno:
 
And I have to give credit where it is due. This is the strongest display of primordial performance product reps I have seen in a wile.. Great job guys, you should get raises.
 
Okay guys check it out.. I'm about ready to start this epic cycle lol. Here's what I got based on all your advice:

Beastdrol: week 1-4 @ 30mg
Stanodrol: week 1-4 @ (450mg?)
Torem: day 1-3 @120mg, 4-7 @ 90mg, week6-7 @ 60mg, week 8 @ 30mg
Forma stanzol: week 4-8 @ 1/2 the rec dosage?

Im kinda confused on the forma-stanzol timing and stanodrol dosage so feel free to comment lol.
 
Okay guys check it out.. I'm about ready to start this epic cycle lol. Here's what I got based on all your advice:

Beastdrol: week 1-4 @ 30mg
Stanodrol: week 1-4 @ (450mg?)
Torem: day 1-3 @120mg, 4-7 @ 90mg, week6-7 @ 60mg, week 8 @ 30mg
Forma stanzol: week 4-8 @ 1/2 the rec dosage?

Im kinda confused on the forma-stanzol timing and stanodrol dosage so feel free to comment lol.

If ur prone to baldness like me u should get some script shampoo and maybe a hair loss supp
 
And I have to give credit where it is due. This is the strongest display of primordial performance product reps I have seen in a wile.. Great job guys, you should get raises.

thanks for the credit, but from what i remember, the ORIGINAL question was how to cycle the beastdrol, and it was advised to use torem

then you came on with your 5product post cycle therapy (pct) ect, and said it was simpler

then we get into a back n forth

a) i did not see any pp products pushed anywhere in this thread, when dht compounds were brought up, the examples of stano-drol, androhard, mmv2 were put out becasue thats what is out there, the op can pick what he wants.....no one said get your hands on some SUPERDRONE, seeing its feedback has been better than the beastdrol, and seeing need2 doesnt test their stuff, may be a better option, may be

b) yes superdrol is a ph to masteron (dht), but once methylated it seems to take on a different nature, please do not tell me they act in the same manner......regardless of its dht roots, properties, whatever, it has a history of delayed gyno in many users, something usually unheard of with any dht compound, its a great bulker which is very unlike dht compounds, and so on

if anything you have been hell bent in selling your cycle to the op, when all he wanted was advice, hes using the beastdrol, you already got his money

so relax, this will go on for ever, his above post, cycle plan looks fine, this thread is dead
 
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