pinnacle or ep
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Zeek
Community Veteran
I want to emphasize the importance of RECENT feedback one last time in this thread.
Just recently we have seen fairly big issues with 3 labs that were putting out some good brew.
Spartan- was great gear but something went wrong and ppl are owed
Tk labs- turned scammer, unless he came out of hiding and started filing orders again over the last few days which i doubt.
MedRx- the gear was good because the powders were the same as spartans, unfortunately he turned bad and became justanother little scamming shit head!
Just recently we have seen fairly big issues with 3 labs that were putting out some good brew.
Spartan- was great gear but something went wrong and ppl are owed
Tk labs- turned scammer, unless he came out of hiding and started filing orders again over the last few days which i doubt.
MedRx- the gear was good because the powders were the same as spartans, unfortunately he turned bad and became justanother little scamming shit head!
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jumpinjeff
TST/TRN/MST 200/600/600
should also be mindful that any non-garbage lab that tries to dose with a modicum of accuracy would have given you the same results. z-line didn't give those results to you. EP didn't give those results to you. Pinnacle couldn't give those results to you. no lab can give you results beyond those that you go out and work your ass off to achieve yourself. 500mg a week of test is 500mg a week of test, no matter what lab you're getting it from, ep, zline, pinnacle, starke, TA, gman, unless of course they are incapable of accurately dosing it at 500mg, that is where you see variation.
that being said, recently you hear about EP being under dosed and our uncle working on trying to get that fixed. and pinnacle being overdosed.
for me you find something that is dosed accurately, that makes you happy with their customer service, turnaround time, and prices, and you go with it until word gets out that you shouldn't.
that being said, recently you hear about EP being under dosed and our uncle working on trying to get that fixed. and pinnacle being overdosed.
for me you find something that is dosed accurately, that makes you happy with their customer service, turnaround time, and prices, and you go with it until word gets out that you shouldn't.
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Zeek
Community Veteran
As an old timer to this game I will take slightly over dosed quality gear every damn time it is available
Much of pinnacles rep for being over dosed is actually from people who have used under dosed gear in the past and were blown away when tthey actually got really good results. I can always inject less CC's if I feel something is strong and I will be happy to do so as I am currently by only injecting 50mg eod of pinnacles tren and taking only 50mg ed of their anavar.anavar and primo could present problems for female users due to this but pinnacle doesn't currently make finished product primo and their anavar being in 25mg caps is not suitable for women anyway since many of them do like to split the dosage during the day.
I will say that I was told directly by Pac-Man that the brew is 10% over label claim to just make sure there is always a little buffer to keep the client happy. These UGL's are not huge white coat labs no matter what many of them like to advertise!
Remember the plague of UGL's is that the vast majority of them are under dosed!
In the end as of 4/1/12 I prefer pinnacle over any other UG brand out there. Notice I put a date down and that goes back to my recent feedback rant.
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jumpinjeff
TST/TRN/MST 200/600/600
sorry zeek, but i don't buy that people can feel much difference between 500mg/week of test-e and 550mg/week of test-e. just like most wouldn't notice the different between a 10% underdose and an accurate dose. obviously the 20% swing between the two some might notice, but most people don't have a clue.
and you're right, the plague of shitty UGLs is that many of them are underdosed. the ones that aren't, are overpriced or have shoddy turnaround time and/or customer service, or a combo of any two or more of those factors.
recent feedback is definitely crucial though.
as of 4/1/12, i rank pinnacle 3rd. but the 2 labs they are behind are both very private, one extremely private. so as far as labs that put themselves out there for the public, they're on top by a hair. would be more but the markup annoys me and is unwarranted. only reason i wouldn't put a lab like starke over them right now for sheer bang for buck is because i know a couple of guys who have gotten some slightly painful stuff from starke, and pinnacle hasn't had that issue in my experience nor in that of those around me. real nice, smooth stuff.
and you're right, the plague of shitty UGLs is that many of them are underdosed. the ones that aren't, are overpriced or have shoddy turnaround time and/or customer service, or a combo of any two or more of those factors.
recent feedback is definitely crucial though.
as of 4/1/12, i rank pinnacle 3rd. but the 2 labs they are behind are both very private, one extremely private. so as far as labs that put themselves out there for the public, they're on top by a hair. would be more but the markup annoys me and is unwarranted. only reason i wouldn't put a lab like starke over them right now for sheer bang for buck is because i know a couple of guys who have gotten some slightly painful stuff from starke, and pinnacle hasn't had that issue in my experience nor in that of those around me. real nice, smooth stuff.
Zeek
Community Veteran
Jeff I like what you are saying and I do agree with you mostly. either I was unclear or you misunderstood me if it looks like i am saying there is a big difference between 500 a week and 550 a week.
I am explaining it this way mostly for new guys and not really to you Jeff since your understanding of the game seems good.
If a lab is putting out say 150mg of test in their test 300 per ml and then someone switches to something that is 330 per ml there is going to be a huge difference to that person! In the end 1 was slightly over dosed and the other was severely under dosed but that is the issue many of these guys are actually running into.
Hit me with a PM when you get a chance and tell me these labs you hold in such high regard. I keep a little black book and I welcome all feedback!
I am explaining it this way mostly for new guys and not really to you Jeff since your understanding of the game seems good.
If a lab is putting out say 150mg of test in their test 300 per ml and then someone switches to something that is 330 per ml there is going to be a huge difference to that person! In the end 1 was slightly over dosed and the other was severely under dosed but that is the issue many of these guys are actually running into.
Hit me with a PM when you get a chance and tell me these labs you hold in such high regard. I keep a little black book and I welcome all feedback!
noobmuscle
New member
WRONG!
Sorry buddy but in my opinion here you are way off base! Not all powders are created the same. If that were the case, All coc would be the same, all marijuana would be the same, methamphetemines would be the same...
Lets look at phramacolgy since my wife is pursuing her Pharm. D. so we can be sure we compare apples to apples.
Pharmacist and the FDA group generic medications into three categories. Type A generic, Type B generic, and Type C generic. Look it up.
Type A: No noticable change in effect and make up than original medication
Type B: <30 percent change in effect than original medication
Type C: <50 percent change in effect than original medication.
Pharm companies base their prices to the pharmacies on what category the generic is in. They are still all Hydrocodone or Celexa (for example), but they are all very different. My drawn out point is this...
They are all the same medication but they are not created equall. They are created with different degrees of quality that effect the overall price of the medication at wholesale. Now if you think that a 14 billion dollar a year LEGAL industry has differnces from generic to generic of the SAME med than you can bet your ass that the black market will have different variations in quality.
NOT ALL LABS ARE CREATED EQUALL!
Thinking that if all labs dosed right they would all yield the same results is just crazy!
Zeek
Community Veteran
Be very careful on the HGH out there right now brother!! we have several of our guys who recently ordered several different brands and test results will be coming soon and will be shared openly with the board.
Until that testing is complete I can't even point people to a good source since I don't trust any of them very much. I do however trust testing done by our own guys here!
Noobmuscle, I think I know you from a few other sites and I agree with you 100%.
all powders are indeed not equal but many of my home brewing friends can't seem to grasp this.
jumpinjeff
TST/TRN/MST 200/600/600
ah yeah man i hear you on that. that's kinda what i was getting at talking about a 10% increase vs a 10% decrease. now you're talking a difference of 450 and 550 a week. 20% underdose would be 400 vs 550 for a 10% overdose which is significant. i was just comparing to labs in the "+/- 5%" crowd which are the only ones i consider worth fucking around with.
i'll try out some new shit while cruising for a few weeks and pull bloods and if the levels drop i throw that one out and move on, if there's a lab out there i haven't messed with and the prices are cheap enough to entice me to see what's good.
i'll pm you at some point when i'm able to. you know at what point they start allowing people to pm? i'm pretty sure you've heard of one of them though they're pretty private most of the time so dunno, you might not have any direct feedback for your black book.
jumpinjeff
TST/TRN/MST 200/600/600
yes and no. most of these labs are getting their powders from the same places. if not from the same source directly, the source their source goes to is the same. and believe me, i had my eyes opened to various aspects of this game big time while i was in europe and asia playing ball.
you're right, not all powders are created equal, but most of the powders these labs, especially dom labs, are getting their hands, are.
you're not wrong, but in this game, among legitimate UGLs that are worth using that information is less applicable than you make it sound.
Repo
P.S.L. Representative
It's funny, I first started with Z with very good results - so I was very hesitant to even try EP ... when I finally tried them I was just as happy with EP as well...
... however - I'm alternating them so much it would be hard to say if one was better than the other?
You are right about the Z line - I don't think I've ever heard of any concerns with the Z line at all.
jumpinjeff
TST/TRN/MST 200/600/600
repo you should run a low cruise dose of one for a month straight and pull bloods and then switch to the other for a month and pull bloods again and see what's good.
Pinnacle@Rep
Muscles can't stop this..
Pops!!!!! YGM!!!! Your PM box is full what you been into?
So on the other hand, what I don't fucking get here is..... If you can't tell a fucking difference in 10% overdosed gear versus normal dosed gear then what in fucks sake would encourage someone to say "I don't want overdosed, I dont want underdosed... I want normal dosage."???? I don't see the point in complaining or crying about a lab wanting the ASSURANCE that they aren't ripping folks off by any sense. Is it possible that there is a lab that has finally come around that has decided not to be a group of douche bags and want to be FOR their clients? To make sure that they provide the TOP of what can be offered? If 10% isn't noticeable then that actually means from the gains side of the client they will not go any further than with normal dose gear, so in essence the lab is doing it for their own peace of mind and actually losing product doing it.....
Hmmmm seems kinda SELFLESS to me and last I checked in a game full of scammers and pieces of shit that underdose, that is a rarity!!!!
Call me stupid but I don't see the point in aspects of this thread.
As for the prices..... That is soooooo funny!!! We expect guys to get out there and risk their freedom with charges of manufacturing and organized criminal activity with potential sentences in prison of upwards of 20-40 years depending on the possibility they could already be convicted felons to be endeavoring such a DANGEROUS game...... And we expect them to do it for nickles and dimes???
That would be like asking the late John Gotti to Extort and murder folks for gas money and cigarettes.....
LOL.... fucking hilarious..... Thread has turned into wasted space.
Four1Thr33
One Chance
Pin for the win. Got ep once and had to increase dosages. Wasn't a fan. Even expressed concern and had zero replys from distributer
jumpinjeff
TST/TRN/MST 200/600/600
my point was just that the hype i read sounds like a lot of it... hype. and often by guys that clearly don't really know what they're talking about. noobs see it and get all pumped, they take it and they let their brain play tricks on them and make them think things are happening that aren't.
i don't need a lab to go 10% over the dose to ensure they're not screwing me out of my money. i'm happy for them to dose accurately, i respect a lab much more for that. and we both know dosing with some modicum of accuracy isn't difficult to do. and we both also know there are other reasons why it is being done in this case. no need to try to get all high and mighty. i'm just pointing some shit out so people don't get caught up in silliness, but rather they learn how to view things objectively and make their own assessments and from that, also make decisions that make sense for them.
i don't care what your price point is. we both know what is being made, and what would be made at various price points. but given other options that are at my disposal, i won't pay extra for something unless what i'm getting extra warrants it. it doesn't here. compared to plenty of labs it does, but compared to those i've used the most over the years, it doesn't.
no need to get upset over that.
you're saying "look at us, compared to scammers and douche bags that underdose we are awesome!".... to me that's not saying much. that's like that old joke by chris rock or whoever it was about guys that say "i take care of my kids" like they are special for it. "what you want a COOKIE!?!? nigga you SUPPOSED to take care of yo kids!!"
to me this isn't all just one game. there's 2 games here. one game is played by the scammers, underdosers, the general trash, or as you so aptly put, douchebags. the other game is played by other companies like pinnacle who are trying to do something solid for their customers. i compare labs in this particular games to each other. and when doing so, certain things stand out that bring labs up or down in my esteem. price point is one of them. dosing is another. there are other obviously plenty of other things, but those both play a part in my assessment. those two aspects are what define bang vs buck. in the end, how much is the user paying for a gram of the hormone, dosing variation calculated in. then with all of the overhead considered, is that markup reasonable?
if i look at prices and say okay, this is 10% overdosed so let's consider this at 90% of the cost that is written here, that's what i'm actually paying for that amount of hormone because what is on the label is only 90% of the amount actually in the container. if that price feels higher than what i consider reasonable after that adjustment, then that lab will take a slight hit in my book. the other labs are taking the exact same risks.
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