juice twice a year--is it safe?

[jpflex66]

Ok this is for the serious minds of men who care about what the future holds for
thier health.

Straight forward answers.....and hopefuly some DOC's can answer too.

Let say you do moderate doses of gear 8-12 weeks twice a year..
ie. 500-750mg test and 300-600 deca..or Winstrol (winny) and all the others.(not much as a pro BB, just to improve body/mind)

if you do this and get blood test is it gonna damage your body or what.
keep in mind you eat clean 90% and take proper supp. and how many years could one go doing this......geez i know guys who drink booze and eat like crap for years..gear cant be worse, OR MAYBE?

 

[EZstreet]

IF you really need to ask a question like this. I think you don't really understand enough to mess with it.

There's virtually no toxicity with what you mentioned. Safe for what? All you are going to be doing is be temporarily throwing your hormonal homeostasis out of balance. You aren't introducing your body to posion(and yes of course there is some advers event that can take place then- or anything the body isn't maintaining homeoastasis).
There's no real age that you can't do it. It's all individual.
YOu may do that till your 100 years old with no problems to speak of(depending on what you consider a problem). Or you may not like the results you get from that much or whatever. YOu're body through aging and other variables is in perpetual change.
Who's to say what health issues independant of roids may pop up and make it no longer a benefit.
The only way "booze" could be worse is if you do toxic Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) in rediculous amounts and let keep sustained high blood pressure or have some type of biological malfuction. In that latter case, you could become intolerant to sugar because your pancreas doesn't do it's job.

But let me just say that alcohol is poison. In any amount it is still a toxic substance.
We take toxins in our body's all the time. Our cellular metabolism produces toxins that get removed constantly. Breathing is a simple example of this. The rate of removal eventual can't keep up with the amount ingested or produced. Organs malfunction and the rate of cellular death is greater than cellular turnover and we die.

YOu just are seeing too much propaganda. It's really hard to say it's harmless because any substance introduced into the body can be harmful.
Just like the no.1/first contraindication for any drug will always be sensetivity to that drug or allergic reactions.

 

[StoneColdNTO]

There's virtually no toxicity with what you mentioned.

I think you must have missed the part where he included Winstrol (winny) in his list of AAS, unless of course you don't think that a shitty lipid profile and no HDL to speak of is not a major concern to cardiovascular health.

 

[{R}a{G}e]

Depends all on the individual i think and how you keep check of yourself. If you run a cycle of something like test/deca at moderate doses two times a year your are probably not going to see problems... I stress probably, again it comes down to each person.

Keeping track of your health, getting test run ect. is the key to everything. Something starts to go a little wacky and you don't like it its time to back off. Many problems that people see with any type of drug could be avoided with better precautions i think.
Just keep a look out...

 

[simpllyhuge]

is injectable Winstrol (winny) as hard on the liver as oral?

 

[EZstreet]

I think you must have missed the part where he included Winstrol (winny) in his list of AAS, unless of course you don't think that a shitty lipid profile and no HDL to speak of is not a major concern to cardiovascular health.

Yes I did miss the Winstrol (winny). Obviously but I have it covered here.The only way "booze" could be worse is if you do toxic Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) in rediculous amounts and let keep sustained high blood pressure or have some type of biological malfuction. In that latter case, you could become intolerant to sugar because your pancreas doesn't do it's job.

And I also tried to cover that area with (and yes of course there is some advers event that can take place then- or anything the body isn't maintaining homeoastasis).

I was trying to be as simplistic and to the point as possible in response to why I feel he was asking the question. And that is the propaganda machine is making roids once again appear like your dick will fall off, your heart will explode , brain damage,YOU WILL DIE!!!
I'm seeing these kinds of posts everywhere! So to me it seems like a bunch of young people wanting to juice that still haven't learned enough if the Propaganda machine is making them think of roids as "Poison"

Here what I picked up somewhere else(maybe this will help explain my position/sentiments:


Perhaps because I lagged well behind my peer group, physically at least, until I was well into my twenties, most of my childhood associations with sports are unpleasant. The shortest and most physically maladroit kid in class after class after class, I was the perennial last-pick when teams formed on playgrounds or PE classes.

Today, my eyes still glaze over when friends talk playoffs and draft picks, and the only games I really care about are those my eleven-year-old son participates in. I suppose it is ironic, therefore, that a serious car accident, while in college, has forced me into a lifelong study of exercise physiology, kinesiology and other sports-related sciences. As sufficient muscle mass seems to be the only alternative to a spinal brace and handfuls of painkillers, I have found myself following or involved in discussions with athletes and trainers more often than many sports writers.

Those associated with bodybuilding, in particular, have pushed the envelope of muscle growth to the greatest extent and are particularly knowledgeable concerning training injuries. While flexing in a bikini bottom probably fails some definitions of sport, no other group trains harder or is as interested and involved in the scientific research behind their sport.

And, like other elite athletes, many take anabolic steroids.

President Bush, a former managing partner of the Texas Rangers, addressed the issue in his State of the Union speech.

"The use of performance-enhancing drugs like steroids in baseball, football, and other sports is dangerous, and it sends the wrong message -- that there are shortcuts to accomplishment, and that performance is more important than character. So tonight I call on team owners, union representatives, coaches, and players to take the lead, to send the right signal, to get tough, and to get rid of steroids now."

Pundits and sports writers alike have puzzled over the unexpected inclusion of the steroid issue in the speech. My own theory is that the comments are penance meant to appease cultural conservatives who were unhappy about the President's friendly public appearances with the Governor of California, who has brazenly used drugs in the past.

For dedicated drug warriors, Schwarzenegger is a particular irritant. Despite smoking marijuana onscreen in Pumping Iron and confessing his steroid use on national television, his unprecedented popularity and success in bodybuilding, show biz and politics makes it difficult to paint cannabis smokers as "losers" or steroid users as mere "cheats."

The other admitted steroid-using governor/athlete was professional wrestler Jesse Ventura, whom they could ignore. Arnold cannot be ignored.

Whatever the president's reasons for including the issue in the SOTU, his repetition of defective assumptions about steroid use will likely have far-ranging and unfortunate consequences.

Most notably, the president repeated the adage that "The use of performance-enhancing drugs like steroids ... is dangerous."

The medical evidence simply does not support such a statement. On the contrary, the most commonly taken and prescribed anabolic steroid, testosterone, effectively ameliorates many of the symptoms of aging, including loss of libido (for women and men,) lean muscle mass, and memory. An estimated 2 million U.S. prescriptions for testosterone were written in 2002 and IMS Health has calculated nearly 30 percent annual growth rates.

While skeptical researchers warn that additional research is needed, as they always will, the evidence indicates that the feared downsides of steroid use, such as heart disease and prostate cancer, have been greatly overstated or contrary to their actual effects. Studies correlate low testosterone levels to Alzheimer's disease and obesity.

The more potent androgens, traditionally acquired on the black market by athletes, have suffered even worse press than testosterone, in large part because they are schedule III drugs -- as are barbiturates, ketamine, LSD precursors, and narcotic painkillers such as Vicodin. Much of what is now known about the benefits of these steroids, by the way, is a result of their successful use by the HIV community to improve, dramatically in many cases, the health and survivability of immunodeficient patients. As AIDS and age-related wasting have much in common, the potential for steroid therapy to increase and maintain vigor and muscle mass through and past middle age is profound.

Nandrolone Decanoate is a powerful component, along with Testosterone Cypionate, of a synergistic "stack" popular among athletes. "Longevity clinics," having learned from the experiences of millions of illegal steroid users, are now prescribing, at boutique prices, these drugs. In clinical trials, Nandrolone has been shown to bolster immune system functioning, counter the effects of malnutrition and muscle loss experienced by dialysis patients, increase bone mineral density and dramatically improve the well-being of elderly patients with Osteoporosis.

Tracy Olrich, of Central Michigan University's Department of Physical Education and Sport, says the emerging consensus is that benefits of therapeutic steroid use vastly outweigh the risks, and points out that, for decades, according to conservative estimates, over a million people at any one time have taken illegal steroids. Only eleven deaths, and most of them only indirectly caused by steroids, he says, have been linked to their use. "Compare that," Olrich prompts, "to smoking, liposuction or bicycle riding."

Liposuction's shockingly high death rate is estimated to be between 30 and 1000 per million patients. An equally useful comparison would be to the sporting activities steroids supposedly imperil; amateur football, for example. According to the University of North Carolina-based National Center for Catastrophic Sports Injuries, out of the approximately 1.5 million American football players in junior high, high-school and college. Fifteen died in 2002 -- down from 23 in 2001.

Throw in heatstroke deaths and paralysis, and football stats read like a Dean Koontz horror novel, though track and field, baseball, and even cheerleading have greater incidences of catastrophic injuries. The Consumer Product Safety Commission recorded 88 deaths in youth league baseball from 1973 to 1995. Other researchers estimate more than 100,000 acute baseball injuries, including serious eye traumas, annually in 5- to 14-year-old children.

It is no secret that, even without a career-ending injury, many professional athletes retire with various degrees of infirmity. Obviously, opposition to athletic steroid use has never been about health. It is about using government to create an image of "fairness" for the sports industry.

The stripping of Canadian sprinter Ben Johnson's 100-meter gold medal at the Seoul Olympics in 1988, after testing positive for stanozolol, prompted the media frenzy that led to Congressional action. He explains, "The Congress of the late 1980's, intent upon 'leveling the playing field,' seems to have simply assumed that the terrible dangers of these hormones were well established, and didn't want to hear otherwise. Congress ignored the representatives of government regulatory agencies including the FDA, the DEA and the National Institute on Drug Abuse who testified against the proposed amendment to the law. Congress disregarded the American Medical Association's position that steroid abuse does not lead to the physical or psychological dependence required for scheduling."

"It was to appease the organized sports lobby and restore public confidence in sports," Collins says, "that Congress passed the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990, adding steroids to the federal schedule of controlled substances.

"But the law and similar state statutes reach far beyond the Olympic and elite level athletes for which they were originally intended. Most people using steroids non-medically are not competitive athletes. The laws criminalize 'cosmetic' and unprescripted therapeutic steroid use for all mature adults, including the millions who are using them illegally simply to lose weight and gain muscle, and prevent physicians from prescribing steroids to healthy adults for such purposes.

"Did the approach work on the original problem? Well, here we are -- many years, numerous hearings and one sweeping law later -- back at 'square one,' still wrestling with the same problem of steroids in sports. Worse still, the legislation actually created new problems, such as a massive foreign black market, a culture of professional ignorance within the medical community, and a slew of arrests and prosecutions of mature non-competing users for personal use possession."

Germane to this issue are all the usual anti-prohibitionist arguments explicated by William Buckley, founder of the pro-legalization National Review magazine, Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman, and George Schultz, President Reagan's adviser who served as both secretary of state and the treasury. The difference, of course, is that other drugs with similar possession penalties lack the dramatic therapeutic attributes of steroids.

Certainly, the sports business has the right to try to eliminate performance-enhancing drugs, just as it has the recreational sort, gambling, spousal abuse and infidelity. All efforts should be made to keep them out of the hands of children, but you don't have to be an economist to predict that nothing will end steroid use in professions where only a slight, marginal increase in strength or speed can translate into tens of millions of dollars. For athletes who can easily afford to jet down to a Tijuana sports clinic for legal, discreet bimonthly injections of designer steroids, invisible to testing technologies, performance-enhancing drugs are not just rational, they are a competitive necessity.

Though I have no experience with illegal steroids, I have taken the less powerful but legal, under the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1993, "prohormones." These precursors convert in the body to muscle building androgens and, especially when dealing with my spinal condition, they have been enormously helpful in building the cushion and support that prevent extreme pain and the loss of nerve signal. Many of my middle-aged and older friends have, similarly, used over-the-counter prohormone products to deal with the increasingly difficult goal, due to reductions in natural hormone levels with age, of maintaining muscle and healing from training and other injuries.

Because a thriving market exists for these products, there are a wide variety of prohormone products and many are actually more useful than those available by prescription, if you can find a cooperative, knowledgeable doctor. For instance, short-acting testosterone or nandralone precursor products, created by the bodybuilder scientist who has pioneered the field of steroidal prohormones, Patrick Arnold, provide the benefits of FDA-approved patches and injectables but are far less likely do "down-regulate" natural testosterone production.

Unfortunately, the President's steroid lecture has added considerable wind to the sails of those calling for a ban on these legal OTC "performance-enhancing substances." Sen. Joseph Biden introduced the "Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2003" that would expand the current list of 27 illegal compounds to over 50 compounds and expressly named isomers, plus all their salts, esters and ethers. The thriving over-the-counter prohormone or "andro" market would be destroyed.

"Significantly," Collins notes, "the bill ... would direct the U.S. Sentencing Commission to consider raising the punishments for all steroid offenses.

"If the bill is passed, the likely result will be that tomorrow's penalties -- including prison terms -- for possession of andro products will be significantly higher than today's penalties for possession of traditional anabolic steroids. It's also likely that state laws will be amended to conform to the new federal schedule, empowering local law enforcement to arrest mature adults and prosecute them in state court for possessing even a single prohormone tablet. The bill already has at least five co-sponsors, including influential Senators Orrin Hatch, Tom Harkin, and John McCain."

As millions of customers have been introduced to the benefits of androgen supplementation through legal prohormones, one can safely assume that many will turn to the black market for replacements if they are banned. One can also assume that this is exactly what organized criminals wish to happen.

Lastly, I think I should point out that my father died from wasting-related complications when a series of ailments prevented him from working out, as he had done his whole life. I was unsuccessful in convincing him or his doctor to use steroids to counter his failing strength and immune system, largely because of the prevalence of the sort of anti-steroid hysteria that has been encouraged by the president's comments. I believe firmly that he would be alive today if our society had not put the interests of professional sports ahead of the people's.

 

[jcp2]

I am going to read this when i have some time, i glanced over it and it is very interesting. Steroids don't kill you, prolonged shitty lipid profiles, and high blood pressure can get you or shorten your life. Keep your doses and your health in check.

 

[needsize]

I've been doing doses a lot higher than that, more than 2x yearly, and my blood and heart tests check out just fine every time

 

[jpflex66]

good read man--i have experience using gear and i plan to continues--i just had lower test levels around 260--this has caused me to become a hypercondriac--and mentally weaker too had little bouts of paranoia ----i just posted this to hear guys opinoins--Yes i agree with you guys--i do go get blood tests-only time my lipids and liver are abnormal is when im on gear--few months later im back to normal. well except my test was low but i screwed up my post cycle therapy (pct) bad...

 

[EZstreet]

good read man--i have experience using gear and i plan to continues--i just had lower test levels around 260--this has caused me to become a hypercondriac--and mentally weaker too had little bouts of paranoia ----i just posted this to hear guys opinoins--Yes i agree with you guys--i do go get blood tests-only time my lipids and liver are abnormal is when im on gear--few months later im back to normal. well except my test was low but i screwed up my post cycle therapy (pct) bad...

Yeah dude I could tell from your thread beginning you are scaranoid. And you're hearing all this anti-steroid shit. All of the sudden all these people's health problems are coming into the light. Before the light was on was there still problems with drug abusers health? Of course. You are over analyzing your situation. I just read your other post asking about if you could have mental problems from gear.

Let me ask you this: Have you ever had a disturbing thought? I mean something than ran through your head that you really didn't want there? The more you think about it and try to shake it the more you think about it. YOu get caught up in this circle . The only things that can break it is to stop thinking about the thought by having your mind on something else so that thought gets replaced(it was just irrelevant data anyhow like the shit your subconcious mind sort out in dreams). You don't want to keep analyzing why the thought popped into your head in the first place.

Well when you subject yourself to becoming an expirement, it's very hard to be objective when you are the object of your expirement. YOu are observing your own placebo effect....... or are you? It's hard to distinguish the placebo from your obsevations because one squews the other. YOu can't seperate you from yourself. That's one reason you need to have regular health checkups.

Try this on somebody; SAy,"YOu look a little off today. Is something wrong?"
You'll almost always trigger some type of "Well Yeah" type of thing. If "no" pour it on a little more gently but thicker; " Maybe it's just this light but you really look a littel pale." Don't say anything for a few minutes and glance at them like your trying to avoid looking at them. YOu'll eventually get them to look in the mirror and if they do, that is your opening depending on whatever their social/recreational habits."
Tell a story about something negative you've read but not relating it too close to them. Then talk about you hoping you don't get sick. Change the subject*try to make it look like you needed to change the subject so you don't worry them* subtle but accidently you make it obvious( you want to make them think you were trying to hide concern about them). Then ask them if they are sure they feel well. Get them some water. Play off their emotions and roll with it/improv. Ask if they've eaten(if yes what?) had unprotected sex or whatever. YOu can talk 75 +% of the people you do this to into being sick . You can watch them actually pale out and start looking. if not getting sick!!!! It's amazing. And it's easy.
With some people you don't have to put half that much shit into(especially most chicks).
The goverment, commercials,advertising whatever,, does the same shit to you.
They tap your brain and you do the rest. Right now mass fucking hysteria is starting. It's already starting to look like guys are dropping dead all around you. FAct is nothing has changed. Just your perception of what was already there because you are being pointed in that direction making you think you are making new discoveries.
YOu.......... are .......being .......mindfucked.........everyday........by,........the forces that be.
You are told what bitches are pretty , what movies are good, what food to eat, what to be afraid of, what music is good,what styles are in, how you should wear you hair, what is prejudice,racist,terrorist etc.. YOu are so bombarded with bullshit you don't even know what the real issues are! Let alone how you feel about what is really up, because you don't really know what the fuck is going on.

The masses haven't every taken control over their own destiny. They are lazy minded people that want someone else to think for them and tell them what to do. They either don't feel like they can help themselves or just don't want the responsibiltiy. They follow traditions not knowing why. They do as they are told with very little question. Governments such as Hitler's And Stalins lead the masses to hell just as a multitude of other tyrants throughout history have.

The masses are still controlled by the tyrants. The tyrant: "Give the people a litte pleasure, tell em their free and take everything they dont' freely give you. Create enought fear and panic and they will beg for you to take what they have. Weave a web of help with helplessness" The only changing variable is technology. And the tyrants grasp every bit of it in their quest for greater control.
The people of the world have used the net for and advantage of all sorts but the net will eventually be using the people. It already is in many ways.
"The American people want....." Yeah motherfucker tell me what do I want!
TEll us we're smart, tell us what we won't put up with, and tell us how you'll fix everything while you listen to nothing we the people have to say.

 

[doggmann]

I think, based on my own experience of ten years, that moderate doses of gear are pretty innocuous. Specifically, test at 1g per week or less, deca/eq at 600mg per week or less and orals like anavar, furzabol, or OT can be used regularly without causing major problems...I avoid Winstrol (winny) like the plague because of tendon issues and a desire not to reduce my HDL cholesterol to zero. I avoid tren, except for rare 6 week summer runs, because of BP issues...

An often overlooked key to maintaining good health while running gear regularly is a healthy diet and smart supplementation. Most of us know the diet stuff, even if we don't adhere to it. It's important to avoid fast foods, processed foods, and other foods loaded with sodium. I'm talking mostly to guys over 30 here. Younger guys can eat a little more crap and get away with it, but probably shouldn't.

Supplements such as garlic extract and cayenne extract are good for BP...Fish oil helps with cardiac health and cholesterol. Green tea extract is an excellent anti-oxident with anti tumor properties. Saw palmetto helps keep the prostate healthy. Niacin is great for normalizing triglyceride levels.

Water intake is critical year round to flush the kidneys and remove toxins from the body. Blood cleansing herbs are also decent for overall health. Also, maintain a regular schedule of cardiovascular exercise all year, not just in the spring and summer months...Cardio is great for blood pressure maintenance and bodyfat control. Finally, I've found that gh at life extension doses of 2iu 5 on/2off is great for overall health.

The bottom line is that sensible precautions can minimize the risks associated with moderate, regular gear use in healthy men.

 

[jpflex66]

GREAT POST--i feel lot better-thnx guys